Bad language

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Rose2020
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Bad language

Post #1

Post by Rose2020 »

I glanced at the National Comedy Awards last night but a few minutes was ample. I couldn't believe the bad language and crudity. One successful actress who has such a sweet face in my view came on stage to give an award. She spoke and expressed the most crude sentence, using the F word. Even hardened fellow comedians and audience were visibly shocked. I switched off, having lost all respect for her.

Why? Do men, let alone women, think swearing is funny? Oh how they downgrade sex into the most soulless, miserable act. The hysterically amused audience seem so well pleased.

It says somewhere in the Bible do not use the same tongue to curse that you were given to worship our Lord God with. I know Christians who swear using the F word. It cannot be ever be right. My biggest distress is hearing Jesus Christ's name used in terrible ways. Yet it goes unchallenged. Even the word 'mother', most precious of words, has been corrupted.

Call me old fashioned but I really do despair.
However, I have lots of good, civilised Christian friends who would never use foul language. I choose to associate with them. I refuse to go along with crude people.

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Re: Bad language

Post #31

Post by alexxcJRO »

Wootah wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:31 pm P1.Gandhi was an atheist when it comes to Christianity. Did not believed Jesus was God.
P2.Gandhi lead a good, moral life.
C3: Therefore it is fair to say he is a perfect candidate for a moral atheist in respect to Christianity.

Gandhi was a sexual deviant from my understanding of history.

http://www.ofmi.org/gandhis-sexual-abus ... andnieces/
https://deeshaa.org/2020/10/05/gandhi-t ... l-pervert/
It’s irrelevant if we take Gandhi or me or maybe other atheist who has not raped, killed, stole, pathologically lied and so on. A person who is overwhelmingly good, kind, empathic, who for the most(overwhelmingly) of their life have not done harm and evil to nobody including animals(I know few people who are as such). A person that is overwhelmingly good as opposed to being evil and malevolent.
So my point still stands.
Last edited by alexxcJRO on Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bad language

Post #32

Post by alexxcJRO »

Rose2020 wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:30 am Hi
Well, no. A moral atheist will not be saved. This is absolutely clear through Christ in the Bible, as you yourself quote above.

Many reasons can be cited. Chief among these is the fact that there are no good people. Only Jesus is perfect. Even the best of us has many frailties and faults. We can never be perfect and therefore earn heaven. This is a basic understanding of following Christ's teachings.

I can only think the worst fate awaits those who know the scriptures well but who choose to reject Christ. At least others could claim ignorance, though still futile. Jesus made it clear that we have choice.
The problem is that kind of logic disproves the supposed omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god, perfectly just, perfectly wise and perfectly good god of the bible.
Being punished forever for finite sins goes in contradiction with an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god, perfectly just, perfectly wise and perfectly good being.
Punishing a moral atheist for simply lacking a belief, for disbelieving again goes in contradiction with an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god, perfectly just, perfectly wise and perfectly good being.
Points more to non-existence or malevolence.
Last edited by alexxcJRO on Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."

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Re: Bad language

Post #33

Post by alexxcJRO »

tam wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:27 pm

Many people think they know what the bible 'says', and some may, but that does not mean that they understand. It certainly does not mean that they know God. It is more important what CHRIST (the Truth and Word of God) says, teaches. To know CHRIST is to know God. As for the subject that has been brought up regarding atheists, from the thread, "A Good God would not send a decent atheist to hell":

viewtopic.php?p=731804#p731804

Just a quick summary (though greater detail in the link), there are indeed those who are not Christian who will enter into the Kingdom and receive eternal life. None of them will be atheist any longer, mind you, lol. But they may have been atheist during their lives. Some of these may be the sheep described in the sheep and the goats parable; some may be described by Paul in Romans 2, where people of the nations who do not have the law, do BY NATURE, the requirements of the law (love), and some may be those at the second resurrection/resurrection of the dead (and there would be no point in a resurrection of the dead, if everyone being resurrected was just being resurrected to be sent back to 'hell'). Note, no Christian is resurrected at the second resurrection, because all who die in Christ are resurrected at the FIRST resurrection (a thousand years earlier than the second resurrection/resurrection of the dead). Rev 20:4-6, 11-15.
It right there:
"16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."(John 3:16)

"8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith”and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God’s not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."(Ephesians 2:8-10)

"20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"and he was called God's friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone."(James 2:20-24)

"6 Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’"(John 14:6)

"24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”
(John 8:24)
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;” (Ephesians 2:8)

“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. “(Mark 16:16)

“so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.” (John 3:15)

“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:18)


“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24)

“Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. “(Luke 8:12)



You cannot get into kingdom of Heaven without faith, belief.
tam wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:27 pm
On top of that, there is no such thing as eternal conscious torment in 'hell' or even the 'lake of fire'. But that is yet another topic ; )

It’s right there in the verses:
"28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28)

"14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death." (Revelation 20:14)
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Revelation 20:10)

"10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.""(Revelation 14:10-11)

"41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’" (Matthew 25:41)

"46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."(Matthew 25:46)

"13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever."(Jude 13)

"9They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" (2 Thessalonians 1:9)


“50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”(Matthew 13:50)

“43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.”(Mark 9:43)

“48where the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.” (Mark 9:48)
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."

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Re: Bad language

Post #34

Post by Wootah »

alexxcJRO wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:07 am
Wootah wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:31 pm P1.Gandhi was an atheist when it comes to Christianity. Did not believed Jesus was God.
P2.Gandhi lead a good, moral life.
C3: Therefore it is fair to say he is a perfect candidate for a moral atheist in respect to Christianity.

Gandhi was a sexual deviant from my understanding of history.

http://www.ofmi.org/gandhis-sexual-abus ... andnieces/
https://deeshaa.org/2020/10/05/gandhi-t ... l-pervert/
It’s irrelevant if we take Gandhi or me or maybe other atheist who has not raped, killed, stole, pathologically lied and so on. A person who is overwhelmingly good, kind, empathic, who for the most(overwhelmingly) of their life have not done harm and evil to nobody including animals(I know few people who are as such). A person that is overwhelmingly good as opposed to being evil and malevolent.
So my point still stands.
I'm just tired of the Gandhi trope. He is not the standard-bearer.

Are you actually putting yourself forward as a good person that we can analyse and willing to be analysed truthfully?

Consider this. John West's slogan is it is the fish that John West rejects that makes them the best. What that means is that the other fish are good, really good, he is not rejecting rotten fish but good fish. But John West according to the slogan picks the best so as to have the best fish for us to eat. I always liked that as an analogy to God. You might be good, but your goodness is not good enough to get into heaven because the standard of good is so high.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Bad language

Post #35

Post by Wootah »

Wootah wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:36 pm Consider this. John West's slogan is it is the fish that John West rejects that makes them the best. What that means is that the other fish are good, really good, he is not rejecting rotten fish but good fish. But John West according to the slogan picks the best so as to have the best fish for us to eat. I always liked that as an analogy to God. You might be good, but your goodness is not good enough to get into heaven because the standard of good is so high.
This is good news (no pun intended). Taking the weight off our shoulders of pretending to be what we are not and allowing God to be who he is is a psychological weight that none of us carries well.

How many times do we fake pretending to be good and then we face the hypocrisy of knowing we are not and the mental damage of that. There is no genuine chance of actually doing good while in that mental state.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Bad language

Post #36

Post by Tcg »

Wootah wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:36 pm
Are you actually putting yourself forward as a good person that we can analyse and willing to be analysed truthfully?
Who is the "we" you are referring to that is qualified to analyze in this case? Do you consider yourself part of this august company?

Consider this. John West's slogan is it is the fish that John West rejects that makes them the best. What that means is that the other fish are good, really good, he is not rejecting rotten fish but good fish. But John West according to the slogan picks the best so as to have the best fish for us to eat. I always liked that as an analogy to God. You might be good, but your goodness is not good enough to get into heaven because the standard of good is so high.
Yeah, and the judge of fish and God are considered equivalent. Sounds about right except that we know for a fact that fish markets exist. The same can't be said of "heaven."


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Re: Bad language

Post #37

Post by Tcg »

Wootah wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:39 pm
How many times do we fake pretending to be good and then we face the hypocrisy of knowing we are not and the mental damage of that. There is no genuine chance of actually doing good while in that mental state.
"We?" I never do that and therefore never suffer any mental damage. Given that, I have plenty of chances of doing good and do so regularly.


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To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Bad language

Post #38

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to Tcg in post #36]

You can rail against metaphysics all you like and yet we know that in reality, whether fish, or God, or man, we are let into different institutions based on whether we are good enough or not. For the last two years, if you are not vaxxed then you are not allowed into places you used to go, apparently right now, if Russian, you can't access google pay or other services. We all know there are some clubs we cannot get into, by that club's standard we are not good enough. It is a real enough phenomenon.
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Re: Bad language

Post #39

Post by Wootah »

Tcg wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 1:10 am "We?" I never do that and therefore never suffer any mental damage. Given that, I have plenty of chances of doing good and do so regularly.
If you do good, that is great, imagine how good heaven is if whatever you do that is good is not good enough. It's simple logic.
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Re: Bad language

Post #40

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
alexxcJRO wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:10 am
tam wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:27 pm

Many people think they know what the bible 'says', and some may, but that does not mean that they understand. It certainly does not mean that they know God. It is more important what CHRIST (the Truth and Word of God) says, teaches. To know CHRIST is to know God. As for the subject that has been brought up regarding atheists, from the thread, "A Good God would not send a decent atheist to hell":

viewtopic.php?p=731804#p731804

Just a quick summary (though greater detail in the link), there are indeed those who are not Christian who will enter into the Kingdom and receive eternal life. None of them will be atheist any longer, mind you, lol. But they may have been atheist during their lives. Some of these may be the sheep described in the sheep and the goats parable; some may be described by Paul in Romans 2, where people of the nations who do not have the law, do BY NATURE, the requirements of the law (love), and some may be those at the second resurrection/resurrection of the dead (and there would be no point in a resurrection of the dead, if everyone being resurrected was just being resurrected to be sent back to 'hell'). Note, no Christian is resurrected at the second resurrection, because all who die in Christ are resurrected at the FIRST resurrection (a thousand years earlier than the second resurrection/resurrection of the dead). Rev 20:4-6, 11-15.
It right there:
As is everything in my post. Completely supported by what is written, as well as by love (which God IS), and of course also mercy (which is what God desires). The use of the following quotes does not take these things into consideration (and many do no support the claim you are making to begin with).
"16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."(John 3:16)
Yes, that is correct. That is a guarantee for those who believe in Christ.

But that does not mean that others are not invited into the Kingdom and receive eternal life - but as SUBJECTS of the Kingdom, rather than as kings and priests who reign with Christ.
"8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith”and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God’s not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."(Ephesians 2:8-10)
Yes, that is also true, but I do not see where this states anything about non-believers.
"20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"and he was called God's friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone."(James 2:20-24)
Same as above.
"6 Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’"(John 14:6)
Yes, also true.

Please note in the post that I linked to above, those invited into the Kingdom (the sheep from the sheep and goats parable) are sheep who were not Christian. They entered into the Kingdom by Christ's invitation, and according to how they (unknowingly) treated Him.
"24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”
(John 8:24)
Well sure... if they did not have forgiveness of their sins (in/from Christ) before they died, they did indeed die in their sins.
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;” (Ephesians 2:8)
Nothing in there about non-believers.
“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. “(Mark 16:16)
Well, you can take that one verse and what you think it means... and ignore everything that shows others can enter into the Kingdom (albeit as subjects and depending upon their deeds)... or you might consider that a) God can have mercy upon whomever He chooses; b) that Christ does indeed call some blessed and righteous who did not know Him, and invites these ones to enter into the Kingdom (see sheep and goats parable for criteria), and c) that without Christ everyone is indeed condemned (already) because the wage/consequence of sin is death.

There is/will be no judgment for those who are in Christ because He has gained forgiveness for them, He has purchased them with His own blood, He covers them. For everyone else, they are judged on the basis of their deeds... yet again see criteria for sheep and goats parable, and see also Romans 2:13-16, noting that love covers over a multitude of sins. Their names can be written in the Lamb's book of life as well.


You cannot get into kingdom of Heaven without faith, belief.
You cannot be in Christ without faith, and unless you are in Him (which does require both faith and HIS choosing), you cannot reign in the Kingdom as kings and priests for a thousand years.

But one CAN enter the Kingdom (which is on earth) as a SUBJECT of that Kingdom, even if one had no faith, having access to the Tree of Life and therefore, receiving eternal life as well.


tam wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:27 pm
On top of that, there is no such thing as eternal conscious torment in 'hell' or even the 'lake of fire'. But that is yet another topic ; )

It’s right there in the verses:
"28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28)
Destroy does not denote eternal conscious torment. What would be left to be tormented if both the body and the 'soul' have been destroyed?
"14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death." (Revelation 20:14)
Exactly. It is right there in the verse: the lake of fire is the second DEATH.

Not eternal torment. Eternal DEATH.
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Revelation 20:10)
Please note that the 'they' refers only to the devil and/or to the beast and false prophet (the beast is not a literal breathing being, so it can't actually BE tormented - though it can be destroyed).


"10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.""(Revelation 14:10-11)
This does not speak of the torment being eternal (and are you sure this is even speaking about something that happens AFTER death, rather than while such people are alive and worshiping the beast and its image)?

"41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’" (Matthew 25:41)
Cursed into the eternal fire, yes, which again means the second death. Utter and eternal destruction/death.
"46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."(Matthew 25:46)
The punishment that is eternal is death.

That is the choice before us: life or death. Not life or eternal existence in torment.

I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,


"13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever."(Jude 13)
Blackest darkness does not describe eternal fire.
"9They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" (2 Thessalonians 1:9)
Yeah... destruction. Not eternal existence in torment.
“50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”(Matthew 13:50)
Assuming this is speaking of the lake of fire, the weeping and gnashing of teeth may occur during the judgment, but not in the lake of fire (which brings utter destruction, eternal death - which is kinda the opposite of eternal existence).
“43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.”(Mark 9:43)
Just because a fire never goes out does not mean that something tossed into it continues to exist.
“48where the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.” (Mark 9:48)
This is quoting a passage from the OT; it does not denote eternal torment in 'hell'. There was no such concept in the OT.

It doesn't even make sense to take that literally.


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Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
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- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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