Abortion and Personhood

Gaunt · Post by **Gaunt** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:36 pm

Time and again you see the arguments that "abortion is murder!" or that one is "killing babies." These arguments, while great for emotional appeal, presuppose the issue of whether or not a fetus is a person.

Are there any anti abortion arguments that do not revolve around the fetus being a person on the same level as a child out of the womb? and if so, What are they?

keltzkroz · Post by **keltzkroz** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:36 am

BeHereNow wrote:Okay keltzkroz. I think I understand your position.
God puts one or more souls into a fertilized egg, but never zero.

I think that sums up my opinion. I believe God puts in one or more souls into a fertilized egg, whether they are carried to full term or aborted due to natural causes, accidents, or human intervention.

BeHereNow wrote: It strikes me as odd that if more are needed he acts accordingly, but if none are needed he does not act accordingly.
Can you explain this? What leads you to believe this?

I don’t think I understand your thinking that there is a difference between fertilized eggs not carried to term due to natural causes and fertilized eggs not carried to term due to human intervention. In each case there is a soul whose “material existence” is ended. Are you suggesting that God treats the souls differently based on the cause of termination? I don’t think you are, so no explanation is necessary if I am right.
I suppose it is like someone dying from drowning. You would say if I pass out and drown accidentally, that is different than if someone holds me under water until I drown. So the issue is still when is there a soul, or human being and not just living cells.

I don't think God treats souls differently based on the cause of termination. I believe He treats them all the same, whether they (fertilized eggs) are carried to full term or aborted due to natural causes, accidents, or human intervention.

BeHereNow wrote: Do you have a basis in believing that the soul is only introduced into a fertilized egg, and not the egg itself for example? I can find no Biblical writings to support this. To the contrary, Jeremiah 1:5 [Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.] suggests to me that the soul for each individual has existed from “the beginning”. Certainly before I was formed in the belly (womb).

The passage you quoted from the Bible mentioned that God 'knew thee' before He 'formed thee' in the belly. For me as a Christian, I would interpret that as 'me and my destiny (or anyone's destiny) being known to God even before I was even conceived in my mothers womb, even before the universe was founded', with God to putting in my soul into the fertilized egg after it was fertilized.

BeHereNow · Post by **BeHereNow** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:24 pm

The passage you quoted from the Bible mentioned that God 'knew thee' before He 'formed thee' in the belly. For me as a Christian, I would interpret that as 'me and my destiny (or anyone's destiny) being known to God even before I was even conceived in my mothers womb, even before the universe was founded', with God to putting in my soul into the fertilized egg after it was fertilized.

Yes, I see that intrepretation now that you point it out.
Obviously several ways to understand it.
Thanks

I don't think God treats souls differently based on the cause of termination. I believe He treats them all the same, whether they (fertilized eggs) are carried to full term or aborted due to natural causes, accidents, or human intervention.

I've seen Fundamentalis tracts which proclaimed that aborted fetuses were doomed to hell. Can I assume you do not agree with that?

keltzkroz · Post by **keltzkroz** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:56 pm

BeHereNow wrote: I've seen Fundamentalis tracts which proclaimed that aborted fetuses were doomed to hell. Can I assume you do not agree with that?

I believe that aborted fetuses and babies that die are not doomed to hell. It is simply beyond me why there are Christians who, using a literal interpretation of what they have read in the Bible, would believe that aborted fetuses and babies who die are doomed to hell. In my opinion, they have immersed themselves thoroughly in scripture, yet failed to see the message that God is trying to tell everyone. I do not presume to know the mind of God, or understand the reality of this universe, but from what I have read in the Bible, God is both just and loving whether or not humans understand what that means.