I often hear how scripture is a reference to Gods message to us. It is suppose to be His commandments. I am told that we are born with some innate sense of God and of Gods commandments and they are our guide to what is right and what is wrong. I have to admit, this is the one area that has always confused me the most. Where do we turn when scripture is not clear on certain things. The best example I can think of is pedophilia. Scripture is quite silent on the "wrongness" of this. Indeed, early churches sanctioned and even encouraged marriages between 30-40 year old men marrying 14-16 year old girls (on the day she reaches "womanhood", some even younger). Today we say it is immoral to commit such acts. Yet the church never condemned it and scripture doesn't reject it.
Up for debate:
1) If God is indeed the maker of morality and we are to follow His guide, then morality or the sense of right and wrong should be absolute, not relative. So was society right back then or are they right now? If morality does not evolve, then why is it things that were perfectly acceptable when Christianity became so popular are now considered unspeakable?
2) Is there anything in scripture than can be proven to be absolute in todays society? Which commandments are absolute?
Scriptures guide to right and wrong
Moderator: Moderators
Scriptures guide to right and wrong
Post #1What we do for ourselves dies with us,
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.
-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.
-Harvey Fierstein
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.
-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.
-Harvey Fierstein
Post #2
1) If God is indeed the maker of morality and we are to follow His guide, then morality or the sense of right and wrong should be absolute, not relative. So was society right back then or are they right now? If morality does not evolve, then why is it things that were perfectly acceptable when Christianity became so popular are now considered unspeakable?
I think you pretty much answer yourself here. It would be impossible to try to suggest that our social, shared morality hasn't evolved. Your example is an excellent one, so are public stonings / hangings / beheadings, which aren't really allowable, beating your children or letting the teachers at their school do it, tar-and-feathering idiots, or not allowing women to vote. I'd like to say it's due to our growing sophistication, but pro-wrestling is still televised, so that's a tough argument to support. I think it's natural for a societies values to grow and change, not necessarily into better values, but into different ones. In time, our own views and beliefs will be considered outdated, ridiculous and primitive. I would say it's part of our nature.
2) Is there anything in scripture than can be proven to be absolute in todays society? Which commandments are absolute?
I think it's pretty clear there isn't. You can consider aspects of it to be 'absolute' if you want, but at the same time, every day, people the world over are breaking all of the commandments, many without ever having heard of them in the first place. Even in our modern world, many of them are regularly ignored. Thou Shalt Not Kill clearly doesn't include texas prisons or Iraqi battlefields. It doesn't say 'thou shalt not kill the innocent' or 'thou shalt not kill except in war.' The same is true about loving thy god and Neighbor, (not LOVING the neighbors, though, that breaks a different one). I'm not loving God right this second (I don't believe in him, and if I did, I'd think him a rather distasteful, unlikeable being) and I have no use whatsoever for my neighbors, one of whom I'm fairly certain is a crackhead. An extremely fat crackhead, which is just mind boggling. We all covet pretty much everything, lying is common, adultary too. I don't think any of what the scriptures say is absolute, although certain individuals may aspire to treating them as such, there is no promise they'll succeed.
The ten commandments are antiquidated, but literally and conceptually. Half of them are attempts to profit from human nature through fear. Think about it. To covet good things is natural, its part of what makes us human. We can't in any way help but, but it's still a soul-damning sin, and the only way that you can save yourself is to participate in the church, donate to the church, volunteer for the church, recruit for the church, protect the church. Men especially are biologically designed to propogate through the spreading of seed, we're pre-programmed for adultery, and while many of us can overcome that programming, it's fairly stupid to make the urge itself sinful. Society could abandon them readily, never mention them again. Murder would still be bad most of the time, rape would still be unacceptable, children would still not get stoned for being disobidient despite what the bible says, and we as a society would be largely less stressed and free to covet whichever big breasted red-head in a tube top we happened to come across on our days.
I think you pretty much answer yourself here. It would be impossible to try to suggest that our social, shared morality hasn't evolved. Your example is an excellent one, so are public stonings / hangings / beheadings, which aren't really allowable, beating your children or letting the teachers at their school do it, tar-and-feathering idiots, or not allowing women to vote. I'd like to say it's due to our growing sophistication, but pro-wrestling is still televised, so that's a tough argument to support. I think it's natural for a societies values to grow and change, not necessarily into better values, but into different ones. In time, our own views and beliefs will be considered outdated, ridiculous and primitive. I would say it's part of our nature.
2) Is there anything in scripture than can be proven to be absolute in todays society? Which commandments are absolute?
I think it's pretty clear there isn't. You can consider aspects of it to be 'absolute' if you want, but at the same time, every day, people the world over are breaking all of the commandments, many without ever having heard of them in the first place. Even in our modern world, many of them are regularly ignored. Thou Shalt Not Kill clearly doesn't include texas prisons or Iraqi battlefields. It doesn't say 'thou shalt not kill the innocent' or 'thou shalt not kill except in war.' The same is true about loving thy god and Neighbor, (not LOVING the neighbors, though, that breaks a different one). I'm not loving God right this second (I don't believe in him, and if I did, I'd think him a rather distasteful, unlikeable being) and I have no use whatsoever for my neighbors, one of whom I'm fairly certain is a crackhead. An extremely fat crackhead, which is just mind boggling. We all covet pretty much everything, lying is common, adultary too. I don't think any of what the scriptures say is absolute, although certain individuals may aspire to treating them as such, there is no promise they'll succeed.
The ten commandments are antiquidated, but literally and conceptually. Half of them are attempts to profit from human nature through fear. Think about it. To covet good things is natural, its part of what makes us human. We can't in any way help but, but it's still a soul-damning sin, and the only way that you can save yourself is to participate in the church, donate to the church, volunteer for the church, recruit for the church, protect the church. Men especially are biologically designed to propogate through the spreading of seed, we're pre-programmed for adultery, and while many of us can overcome that programming, it's fairly stupid to make the urge itself sinful. Society could abandon them readily, never mention them again. Murder would still be bad most of the time, rape would still be unacceptable, children would still not get stoned for being disobidient despite what the bible says, and we as a society would be largely less stressed and free to covet whichever big breasted red-head in a tube top we happened to come across on our days.
