An interesting quote from JRR Tolkien

[FaerieStories]

The genius JRR Tolkien was- as you may know- a highly religious man- a fervent Catholic. He described his own works- tLotR in particular as being highly religious. Despite this I am an absolutely massive fan of him, I think he is the greatest wordsmith the English language has ever seen.

This quote is maybe taken slightly out of context (it's in an essay called "On Fairy-Stories") and yet, it has always struck me as one of the fantastically anti-religious witticisms out there:

"If men were ever in a state in which they did not want to know or could not perceive truth (facts or evidence), then Fantasy would languish until they were cured." -J.R.R. Tolkien

It just seems to sum up religion and mythology in a nutshell so perfectly: man has an inbuilt 'hole' of the unknown in which he must fill and 'cure' with fantasy. And so mythology serves to bridge reality and fantasy, blurring and confusing the two.

Thoughts?

[cnorman18]

The genius JRR Tolkien was- as you may know- a highly religious man- a fervent Catholic. He described his own works- tLotR in particular as being highly religious. Despite this I am an absolutely massive fan of him, I think he is the greatest wordsmith the English language has ever seen.

This quote is maybe taken slightly out of context (it's in an essay called "On Fairy-Stories") and yet, it has always struck me as one of the fantastically anti-religious witticisms out there:

"If men were ever in a state in which they did not want to know or could not perceive truth (facts or evidence), then Fantasy would languish until they were cured." -J.R.R. Tolkien

It just seems to sum up religion and mythology in a nutshell so perfectly: man has an inbuilt 'hole' of the unknown in which he must fill and 'cure' with fantasy. And so mythology serves to bridge reality and fantasy, blurring and confusing the two.

Thoughts?

I too regard Professor Tolkien as one of the greatest authors in the history of the English language, and you and I are not alone. It had been said that the three greatest works in English, for sheer majesty and grace of language, are the King James Bible, the plays of William Shakespeare, and The Lord of the Rings.  

I think your point is well taken, but I don't know that Tolkien's remark could really be described as "anti-religious."  Consider this statement of my own style and kind of belief, which I have posted here many, many times: 

To say, "I believe in God" is not necessarily quite the same as to say "I believe that God objectively exists." There are those who question that assertion, but it is true; and I am not the first or only person to take that approach. Here is an essay on that subject and others related to it from MyJewishLearning.com.    

"I believe in God" may mean no more than "I believe in God as a moral principle, an ideal, a way of understanding and approaching existence; and I HOPE that there is a truth - the nature and details of which I cannot know - that validates that belief." 

I believe in God, in precisely that way; but I do not, and cannot, know with certainty if that belief is true or false, valid or in vain. Even so, I choose to believe in that ideal, because even if the good and the noble and the holy are mere inventions of man - and even if man is therefore a higher and better and nobler being than his nonexistent God - they are still worth believing in. That is precisely why I call it "faith." Faith in those ideas - not necessarily in a God that I am not wholly certain exists, never mind  whether He is benevolent or omnipotent or any of that.

Perhaps that belief, in those ideals, is, in the end, all there really is. And perhaps that is enough to justify them.  

Before we go to "But why bother with..." 

Of COURSE one could pursue the good and the noble without reference to any God, to any pseudohistorical narratives, without referring to anything at all but the abstract ideals themselves; but that seems to be the province of philosophers. The rest of us - common humanity - have always found such ideas more comprehensible and accessible, not to say inspiring, when expressed in a STORY. If that story is linked with an ancient and honorable tradition and one's personal heritage, being about about one's own ancestors, so much the more. 

Whether or not the story is literally or historically true has rather rarely been the point.

The values, and ethics, and moral ideals presented in LOTR are as grand and glorious as any that have ever been presented anywhere or in any form.  Would that we were all as brave, faithful, noble, resolute and selfless as Frodo and Aragorn and Sam and the other heroes of the story; would that we all appreciated and rejoiced in the beauty of the world and the life upon it, and the beauty and pleasure of language and song and story, as they did. Would that we were as good as they.  

If a religion were to be founded on that book, a religion which worshipped Eru Iluvatar, the Creator, which prayed to Elbereth Gilthoniel and the rest of the Valar in the Uttermost West and looked back to the tales of the First, and even the Third Age of Middle-Earth -- 

Well, it strikes me that one could do worse. 

To be sure, such a religion might become as toxic as any other, in the hands of those with a toxic agenda -- used to justify their own hatreds and fears, demanding that all abide by their own pronouncements or else be pronounced Orcs and Trolls.  That is the nature of humans and hardly the fault of religion itself, or of the books -- works of humans -- upon which it is founded. 

What I mean is this; Perhaps religious belief IS a fantasy.  But perhaps it is worth believing in for all that, a source of guidance and ideals -- at least for the goodhearted hobbits and men and dwarves among us.  Alas, I have never known an Elf. 

[FaerieStories]

Let's not forget that Eru Illuvitar and the god of Catholicism are one and the same.

Anyway, I see what you are saying, but I disagree. I value intellectual honesty, and believing a falsity for the benefits of comfort or security is not (in my opinion) a worthwhile or productive way to live your life.

[Dantalion]

Let's not forget that Eru Illuvitar and the god of Catholicism are one and the same.

Anyway, I see what you are saying, but I disagree. I value intellectual honesty, and believing a falsity for the benefits of comfort or security is not (in my opinion) a worthwhile or productive way to live your life.

I agree, and it's why an end-all argument like; 'it may or may not be true, but it's what I chose to believe' doesn't do anything for me.
i actually care whether or not something is 'true'

[Choir Loft]

The genius JRR Tolkien was- as you may know- a highly religious man- a fervent Catholic. He described his own works- tLotR in particular as being highly religious. Despite this I am an absolutely massive fan of him, I think he is the greatest wordsmith the English language has ever seen.

This quote is maybe taken slightly out of context (it's in an essay called "On Fairy-Stories") and yet, it has always struck me as one of the fantastically anti-religious witticisms out there:

"If men were ever in a state in which they did not want to know or could not perceive truth (facts or evidence), then Fantasy would languish until they were cured." -J.R.R. Tolkien

It just seems to sum up religion and mythology in a nutshell so perfectly: man has an inbuilt 'hole' of the unknown in which he must fill and 'cure' with fantasy. And so mythology serves to bridge reality and fantasy, blurring and confusing the two.

Thoughts?

Put in simpler words, if a man does not know the difference between truth and fantasy, then fantasy dies because truth is already dead.

The mindless brutality of lies and bigotry then take the place fantasy and truth once occupied. The murder of truth kills faith and the substance of that which holds kind and peaceful civilization together.

Evidence of the brutality against truth and life and faith are obvious in the body of Tolkien's work. Sauron becomes the epitome of evil and his legions, the orcs, enforce the brutal lie of his kingdom. Earlier in The Hobbit, Smaug is the bearer of the same banner. It is a thief of that which is most valuable and which was created by others. Both dwell in dark places and guard the hoard of that which they have stolen and killed to claim.

Faith hope and love stand against these forces of spiritual and physical darkness thievery and murder. The hole of the unknown you speak of is filled in pagan cultures with myth. Western religion and science is based upon the faith that God is consistent and that He and the universe He has created can be discovered and that it obeys certain principles. Pagan religion, on the other hand, is filled with human myths and humanly invented gods whose motivations and actions are as inconsistent as man himself.

Man invents myths to justify his sin. God publishes His commandments to identify rightness and to drag sin into the light of day.

The difference is truth, that which is consistent with what is. Christianity embraces the truth because Jesus IS the truth. This is the chief difference between Christianity and all other religions.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...