Whiplash

Religion in TV, Movies, Books, etc.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
bluethread
Savant
Posts: 9129
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:10 pm

Whiplash

Post #1

Post by bluethread »

I just saw Whiplash. It got a 95% on the tomatometer and viewer reviews. Though it may have been well acted, I found the story to morally bankrupt. The whole idea that cruelty is justified because it can result in higher quality is a canard, IMO. Even if cruelty and psychological abuse did result in higher quality on occasion, the damage done in those cases, not to mention the damage done by those who use this as an excuse to be cruel regardless of quality, more than outweighs any qualitative gains.

The question for debate, does the pursuit of excellence justify cruelty?

User avatar
Saint_of_Me
Banned
Banned
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:00 pm
Location: A place that used to be part of Mexico!

Re: Whiplash

Post #2

Post by Saint_of_Me »

[Replying to post 1 by bluethread]

No it does not. JT Simmons' Cruelty is not justified in that movie. Nor would it be tolerated in real life.

I saw it too. As a drummer and a fan of JT Simmons, I had to. Plus I also saw the rave reviews. I was also disappointed in the movie. The main problem I had with it was one of incredulity. An highly reputed and elite music academy like Julliard would never allow an instructor to treat his students like that. It's absurd.

If the guy were just some music teach, a private tutor or a record company excec, and A & R guy or something, it might be possible. But not at a music academy or college. The mindset of the board and faculty at those places is very liberal. They would never condone such an ass.

That being said. The drumming was excellent. I read some background on the making of the film. The bleeding hands were real. The main actor (sorry, forgot his name) really DID have to practice about 8 hours a day.
A funny side note: that actor was not rally a drummer, but the kid who played the second fiddle, whom JT Simmons replaced as top drummer with the main kid, well that guy was the real professional on the set and taught the protagonist kid most of his lessons.

And those intense and amazingly fast drum solos were real. But they had to take little 10 and 20 second bursts of drumming and splice those together to create the idea of a full solo. Since i reality the actors could not sustain that speed (I counted 1/128th notes!) for longer than several seconds.

LOL...."Not quite my tempo"


Davado
Banned
Banned
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:24 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Whiplash

Post #3

Post by Davado »

Isn't whiplash a movie about girls learning to roller derby?

I didn't read anything like that into it
Chicks can really rollerskate was the lesson I got

Davado
Banned
Banned
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:24 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Whiplash

Post #4

Post by Davado »

Isn't whiplash a movie about girls learning to roller derby?

I didn't read anything like that into it
Chicks can really rollerskate was the lesson I got

User avatar
Purple Knight
Prodigy
Posts: 3465
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 1129 times
Been thanked: 729 times

Re: Whiplash

Post #5

Post by Purple Knight »

bluethread wrote: Thu May 28, 2015 12:00 pmThe question for debate, does the pursuit of excellence justify cruelty?
Of course. Whether it's playing a drum or making a basket of fries, there is nothing in this world not worthy of being done excellently, and there is no excuse for failure to be excellent.

I watched the scene. It's obviously not slavery. The kid can leave. He chooses not to leave, so he already knows that what he is doing is worthy of doing right.

User avatar
boatsnguitars
Banned
Banned
Posts: 2060
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:09 am
Has thanked: 477 times
Been thanked: 580 times

Re: Whiplash

Post #6

Post by boatsnguitars »

I don't thin the movie was suggesting it was OK for him to be cruel in the pursuit of excellence, but actually raising the question you have posed.
But it was nuanced. There isn't a musician alive who wouldn't love to have a legendary live performance; a performance considered the pinnacle of achievement, stands the test of time, causes goosebumps on every listen.
He was only cruel to the guy who really wanted it, and might have the chance of achieving it. That is, the protagonist was a willing partner.
But I think it was trying to tell an interesting story to non-musicians.

But, for a more interesting take than mine:

“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

Post Reply