The Handmaid's Tale

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The Handmaid's Tale

Post #1

Post by Furrowed Brow »

The Handmaid's Tale was a book by Margaret Atwood. There was a underwhelming movie in 1990 but the recent Emmy winning Hulu production was both beautiful and powerfully realised I thought. One of the best things on TV for a long time and a deserving winner, though I have friends who thought it was a little slow.

[center]Trailer for The Handmaid's Tale[/center]
In the Handmaid's Tale the United states has been taken over by a theocratic state and is now the Republic of Gilead. Atheists, gays, Jews are hung from walls. Catholic Churches are bulldozed, woman are not permitted to read. Eyes are plucked and hands cuts off. Woman - the handmaid's - are raped for the greater good. It is a highly disturbing picture of totalitarian power, misogyny and religious fundamentalism.

Unrealistic dystopia or a disturbing warning to be heeded?

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Post #11

Post by Divine Insight »

Wootah wrote: [Replying to post 9 by Divine Insight]

I'm not implying you want it to to come true (although I think there is a section of women being titillated by the tale).

What I am saying is that your connection between a movie and Trump is bizarre and that the movie reflects more on the paranoia of the left.
I'm an independent. This "left" and "right" stuff is utter nonsense.

Any decent human being should be able able to see the immoral behavior of our new Administration. In fact, forget about left and right in America. The entire world has recognized the insanity of the current administration of the USA.

How in the world can any decent human being justify John Kelly's total character assassination of congresswoman Wilson after it has been clearly shown that everything he said about here was a total lie.

If it had been an honest mistake all he would have needed to do was make an apology for having recalled things incorrectly. But no, instead he doubles down refusing to apologize after having called the woman an "Empty Barrel" and telling absolute lies about her.

This is totally unacceptable behavior. And the real irony here is that John Kelly himself was talking about what is "sacred" in America. But apparently John Kelly doesn't consider truth or decency to be sacred. He made a totally false character assassination on a black congresswoman and refuses to even acknowledge his mistake or outright lie.

So why am I focusing on John Kelly? Well, because he was supposed to be the "Adult in the White House". We already know that Trump is a lying bully who never backs down form his immoral lies and character assassinations. That's what he does continually on a daily basis.

But now we see this type of immoral behavior spreading to John Kelly.

Is this an indication of the cancer that has affected America?

I make no apologies for pointing out the TRUTH.

This has absolutely nothing to do with "left" versus "right". This has to do with good versus evil.

This administration is a disgrace to humanity. Never mind America.

In fact, to be perfectly honest about I can't understand how anyone can continue to support this inhumane and immoral administration.

And I think this is the PERFECT THREAD to point this out in. Because if people won't stand up to this kind of extreme bigotry and racism and instead play the game of "left" versus "right". Then something like The Handmaids Tale can indeed come true precisely because of the people who support this kind of extreme bigotry.

I make absolutely no apologies for pointing this out.

This isn't about "left versus right". This is about "Good versus Evil".

Choose your side wisely or you'll end up supporting The Handmaids Tale becoming reality. Or at least extreme bigotry and racism being conducted and supported by the highest officials in the land.

At what point do you intend to speak out against this kind of behavior? After it's far too late? :-k

Then you'll be staring at the reality of The Handmaids Tale right in the face.
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Post #12

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 11 by Divine Insight]

Yes you are reflecting the paranoia driving the TV series.

I don't know the facts on the Trump call but didn't the Congress woman talk first?

Let's even assume Trump flunked the call. It's still totally inappropriate to politicise the call as she did.
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Post #13

Post by Divine Insight »

Wootah wrote: [Replying to post 11 by Divine Insight]

Yes you are reflecting the paranoia driving the TV series.

I don't know the facts on the Trump call but didn't the Congress woman talk first?

Let's even assume Trump flunked the call. It's still totally inappropriate to politicise the call as she did.
If you think this is about the call then you are grossly mistaken.

It wouldn't matter if the Congress woman politicized a call for political purposes. So what if she did? If that's the case then that the only thing that she can be accused of.

This wouldn't justify a totally false attack on her character in general. This wouldn't justify Kelly's behavior.

And besides, the Congress woman was very close with this specific family including both the Gold Star widow and the fallen Green Beret. All she did was truthfully express the feelings of the widow. And the widow herself came out to confirm that the Congress woman was indeed right. So the Congress woman did nothing wrong.

Trying to make out like the Congress woman somehow did something wrong therefore this totally justifies John Kelly lying about her and calling her an "Empty Barrel" simply doesn't fly.

Like I say, if you are willing to justify going down that road you will end up with a society like The Handmaids Tale.

Where are the bigotry and lies going to end if you don't call them out when they start?

Justifying this kind of behavior is precisely how a society ends up going down these horrible paths. This isn't any different from Nazi Germany. If you start justifying Hitler's degradation of the Jews just because you feel that Jews aren't worth defending, then you end up with the Holocaust.

This is really no different. Justifying John Kelly's clearly false and unwarranted attack on a black congresswoman does nothing more than justify unwarranted attacks on black congresswomen and treating them all as "Empty Barrels".

This is the seeds of bigotry and racism. Denying it only serves to support it.

The fact that John Kelly's character assassination of Frederica Wilson was grossly false has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Yet no apology is forthcoming. In fact, John Kelly has already made it clear that he's never going to apologies for his lies.

How does anyone who has any moral values at all stand behind that or support it?

You may as well join the KKK if you're going to do that.
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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

Post #14

Post by Furrowed Brow »

bluethread wrote:I have not watched the series, but if the trailer and your summary are correct, in spite of the Quacker outfits on the handmaids and western business clothing for the leaders, there is only one theistic philosophy that even comes close to this, and it is not fundamentalist Christianity.
It is true I tended to think of Saudi Arabia as I watched.

(The wives of the commanders also wear blue 1950s style dress and the servants wear grey. The clothes represent the social hierarchy).
bluethread wrote:Also, it looks more like an authoritarian socialist state, than a laissez faire capitalist one.
Margaret Atwood wrote the book after visiting Eastern Europe. The themes of secret societies and the fear of being watched and and reported on and not knowing who to trust issue from her experiences in Eastern Europe. So you are right to point out the authoritarianism on show is not limited to religion and the world created in th Handmaid's Tale is redolent of Soviet Eastern Europe. This is not accidental it is part of the DNA of the how the story came to be written.

bluethread wrote:However, that might be why it is so popular.
I suspect it is popular because it is brilliantly done and of the highest quality.
bluethread wrote:When confronted with oppression, it is easy to only see those characteristics that one opposes and ignore those that one agrees with.
That is true of everyone is to not? :-k

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Post #15

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Wootah wrote: Movies like this indicate where the left wing zeitgeist is at.

Actual rape of women gets covered up in Hollywood for years...
There is no evidence Margaret Atwood or anyone directly involved in the production of The Handmaid's Tale have done any covering up. However clearly Hollywood is a den of world class hypocrisy and their is guilt by association. But we can shoot the messenger and still not undermine the message.
Wootah wrote:I think fantasy and fetish is what what is going on in this story and if you enjoy it and can separate the two then do so.
There may be veins of both in the story but the drama can still be important.

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Post #16

Post by Divine Insight »

Furrowed Brow wrote:
Wootah wrote:I think fantasy and fetish is what what is going on in this story and if you enjoy it and can separate the two then do so.
There may be veins of both in the story but the drama can still be important.
Not only that, but we know that similar types of social behaviors have existed historically. As has already been mentioned, there are some radical Islamic groups that basically are doing this as we speak in 2017. So for those women it's no fantasy, it's their reality.

Also, consider several actual historical events throughout the world. If they never actually happened and were just made into movies, we would probably think they would be extremely unlikely to happen in reality.

The A-Bombs being dropped on Japan for example. If that had never actually happened and a movie came out that depicted this event, everyone would chalk it up to being extremely unrealistic and not ever likely to actually occur. Yet it did occur in reality.

White men capturing boat loads of black men and treating them as non-human slaves. If that had never actually happened and a movie came out that depicted this event, everyone would chalk it up to being extremely unrealistic and not ever likely to actually occur. Yet it did occur in reality.

White men coming into a country and brutally driving the natives off their homeland in a "Trail of Tears". If that had never actually happened and a movie came out that depicted this event, everyone would chalk it up to being extremely unrealistic and not ever likely to actually occur. Yet it did occur in reality.

An insane fool rises to power in Germany and convinces the population at large to exterminate Jews in the most grotesque ways. If that had never actually happened and a movie came out that depicted this event, everyone would chalk it up to being extremely unrealistic and not ever likely to actually occur. Yet it did occur in reality.

Vietnam. If that had never actually happened and a movie came out that depicted this event, everyone would chalk it up to being extremely unrealistic and not ever likely to actually occur. Yet it did occur in reality.

Have we learned anything at all from history?

The Handmaids Tale might seem remote and unlikely especially in the USA, but guess what? Reality has a habit of becoming what we think is remote and unlikely.

I imagine there were many decent Germans who never, in their wildest nightmares, would believe that someone like Adolf Hitler could rise to become their leader and lead them down the road of extremely insane immoral behavior. Yet that's exactly what happened.

So a fear that a similar thing could happen in the USA is not all that unrealistic given the reality of history.
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Post #17

Post by Bust Nak »

[Replying to post 12 by Wootah]

Trump is an enemy of feminism, you don't have to have watched any the TV series to know that much. Come on, you have to grant me that much at least.

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

Post #18

Post by bluethread »

Divine Insight wrote:
bluethread wrote: "so-called" is the operative term. The KKK was a cultural movement based on the economic displacement of poor whites under reconstruction. Christianity applied to them just about as much as "In God We Trust" applies to our current federal government.
Keep in mind that this is the mentality of all Christians. They all consider any Christians who disagree with them to be "so-called" Christians.
It was your characterization, not mine. The points I made still stands. The KKK was a socio-economic movement, not a theistic one and most Christians spend very little time studying the Tanakh.
Any by the way:
bluethread wrote: Regarding your equating the Tanakh with radical Islam, as I stated, people tend to see what they want see.
If that's your position then you can't claim that the Tanakh is clear about anything. Your position needs to be that anyone can see anything they want in it.

That doesn't say much for the Tanakh.

And besides, Islam is based on precisely this same underlying mythology. Allah and Yahweh are the same God. Christianity and Islam are simply two different offshoots of the same original mythology.
No, it doesn't say much about people. I did not limit that principle to the Tanakh. My point is that you equate Christianity and Islam, because you recognize the similarities to be significant and the differences to be insignificant. I do not see things that way. My point is that the story line of The Handmaid's Tale, as presented in the OP, does not line up well with the teachings of either the Tanakh or the Apostolic Writings. However, as I also said, when confronted with an oppressive authoritarian tale, people tend to Identify with the victims and see the oppressors as symbolic of those with which they disagree.

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Re: The Handmaid's Tale

Post #19

Post by Divine Insight »

bluethread wrote: My point is that you equate Christianity and Islam, because you recognize the similarities to be significant and the differences to be insignificant. I do not see things that way.
Actually I equate Christianity and Islam because they are clearly both offshoots from the very same underlying God mythology. In this sense they are the same religion.

What differences they may claim to have after fracturing away from the underlying foundation is basically a moot point. I realize that Christians often claim to be basing their believes solely on the teachings of Christ. The problem with this is that even in their very own New Testament the Gospels have Christ proclaiming that we must obey Yahweh and his laws, and that not one jot or tittle of those laws shall pass.

So no matter how Christians try to escape it, their very own superstar Jesus demands that the OT laws be retained. Many Christians deny this, but when they do that all they are doing is denying what the Gospels have Jesus saying. So it's not a supportable position.
bluethread wrote: My point is that the story line of The Handmaid's Tale, as presented in the OP, does not line up well with the teachings of either the Tanakh or the Apostolic Writings. However, as I also said, when confronted with an oppressive authoritarian tale, people tend to Identify with the victims and see the oppressors as symbolic of those with which they disagree.
And my point was that modern day "Christians" don't seem to give much of a hoot about what might be in the Tanakh or the Apostolic writings.

I mean, just look at how many Christians are supporting the clearly anti-Christ behavior of Donald Trump.

In fact, there really isn't much point in even talking about what you might personally like for Christianity to represent. The bottom line is that there exist millions of people today who call themselves "Christians" who may not agree with your personal views of what you think Christianity should represent.

So it's basically a moot point what you might think Christianity "should" represent.

You'd need to take that up with the masses of people who call themselves "Christians".

Arguing with me about it is pointless.

Also if you claim that the Tanakh represents intelligent, wise, or moral conduct, then you and I could debate that. I see totally immoral and unwise teachings, directives and commandments in the Tanakh.

So your claim that it's a respectable, moral, or intelligent guide to life doesn't automatically make it so. Obviously that's just your opinion. An opinion that I would passionately disagree with. :D
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Post #20

Post by Wootah »

Bust Nak wrote: [Replying to post 12 by Wootah]

Trump is an enemy of feminism, you don't have to have watched any the TV series to know that much. Come on, you have to grant me that much at least.
Who isn't an enemy of feminism? Feminism is another destructive ideology wrecking havoc on the West.
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