The lost tomb of Jesus

[PetriFB]

http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/TheLo ... Jesus.html

We live in time, whereat many Bible's prophecies are filling. We also live in time, which is very near Yeshua's (Jesus) second coming. For this reason many people attacks with all power of evil against the Bible's message and these attacks will increase. These canting attacks also use modern technology as "help" in order to spread their lies. But in vain the world try to invalidate depiction of the Bible from Yeshua the Messiah. God has built His evidences about His word to everlasting foundation, which will never fall, but will stand an be valid for ever. One attack against word of God is a document film The Lost Tomb of Jesus (director James Cameron) and book The Jesus Family Tomb (written Simcha Jacobovici and Charles Pellegrino). Documentary and book tell about the same subject "The Jesus Family Tomb". But when we research more closer this sensation, so we notice it is only a sensation, filled with assumptions and spurious fake, which try to cancel description of the Bible from Jesus.


Behind the link can be new aspects and proves relating to this document to those who don't believe the message of the Bible!

[Cathar1950]

Here is one more prophecy of the last days that the reader should be aware of....

in the last days mockers shall come with mockery, walking after their own lusts,
and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:3-4

Thank you for helping to fulfill those words.

What I would like to know in what day WASN'T there mockers?
Ia that a prediction, or an observation? Certainly a lot of people mocked Christianity from the very beginning

True but the forger of the letter was later when things started looking like like it wasn't going to happen. Any time after, even centuries later, they can look back and read this fake letter that tells them "Peter said they would say this" and they would always be right and 2000 years later it is just that much more true.

You cannot prove forgery. If you had the facts you'd have done it.

Instead you substitute inuendo, false assumption, and sacriledge for the truth.

You source a lie (if you have one at all.....which I really doubt) and you have served to fulfill the prophecy even in your own effort to deny it.

Thanks again for proving the scripture true.

Now that is funny “sacriledge for the truth�, I think you mean “sacrilege�, but who knows.
It isn’t much of a prophesy especially when you misuse it as you are. It has to do with the coming of Jesus which failed to come about in a timely manner and your use for it today makes it even more dubious, but it isn’t about the authorship of Mark or the forgery of II Peter. What a Richard.

Of course I can’t prove a forgery but we can pretty much eliminate the traditional authors.
It isn’t that I don’t have the facts, there are just too many of them to address them all here and we have a number of threads on the subject going now. But your conclusion that I must not have any facts or I would have presented them is in error as it was you that made the claim that the author was Mark and the scholars agree with out any “facts�. I simply said the author was unknown which does in fact happen to be the scholarly consensus, not just Mark but all the gospels. It looks like you are ignoring the scholarship of the last century for dubious tradition and hearsay coupled with your personal dogmas.
Am I to assume the reason you failed to present facts is because you don’t have any and it is the reason you projected you plight back at me?
Show us the “facts� you have and we can see if it stands up to your claims.

I was amused at you misuse of II Peter as it is referring to the second coming and not to the authorship of Mark.

[Choir Loft]

Someone wrote:
It looks like you are ignoring the scholarship of the last century

1900 years of records and millions of lives of testimony cannot be dismissed by a few historical revisionists. Accept false data if you wish, but the fact that something is written in the last hundred years doesn't make it true.

IT IS A FACT that since the late 1940's textbooks and references to original documents have been altered and changed at an alarming rate. Put religious discussion aside for a moment and take a look at what some call hard science. Let's go a bit further and look at chemistry as an example.

How much do you think the physical laws of basic chemistry have changed in the last hundred years? I'm not talking about extreme advances or current discoveries; basic science is all I'm talking about. Not at all or perhaps very little, right?

In actual fact statements, descriptions, and references to basic facts of chemistry change every year. Why? Money, that's why. Publishers of text books want to sell more books and the authors of those books want to sell more books. The price of text books is rising dramatically every year (as are profits). It's the single greatest factor in the rise of the cost of higher education. The basic laws of chemistry don't change, but the nomenclature HAS TO change to keep profits high. This issue is a basic source of complaint and confusion on the part of students and educators today. Don't believe me? Visit your local college and talk to one of the doctors there.

HISTORICAL REVISIONISM IS A FACT and simply quoting a source or a scholar from the twentieth century is neither accurate nor of sufficient weight to assume that one has good data; be it chemistry or religion.
---------------
Someone wrote:
I was amused at you misuse of II Peter as it is referring to the second coming and not to the authorship of Mark.

Whether I misused the quote or not is a matter for your personal opinion. You are entitled to that.
My purpose in using the quote was to illustrate my point; and I am entitled to do that as much as you are.

You foolishly assume that all truth is contained in print from recent times. Do you believe everything you read or just that which fits your personal agenda? If so, I'm sure that you are in the company of those who've seen Elvis recently; that data is from the last hundred years as well.

"What a fool believes he sees,
No wise man can reason away."
WHAT A FOOL BELIEVES (1980) The Doobie Brothers

The fact remains that the prophecy states that mockers will come and you have proved yourself to be one over and over again.

Thank you once again for proving the words to be true.

[Cathar1950]

Someone wrote:
It looks like you are ignoring the scholarship of the last century

1900 years of records and millions of lives of testimony cannot be dismissed by a few historical revisionists. Accept false data if you wish, but the fact that something is written in the last hundred years doesn't make it true.

Actually it was the unknown author of Luke and Eusebius were revisionist of church history as they invented church history. The fact remains that stuff written 1900 years ago was not factual but like the OT was propaganda and ideolozed history. They were messing with the writings for hundreds of years before they started becoming more standard.

IT IS A FACT that since the late 1940's textbooks and references to original documents have been altered and changed at an alarming rate. Put religious discussion aside for a moment and take a look at what some call hard science. Let's go a bit further and look at chemistry as an example.

How much do you think the physical laws of basic chemistry have changed in the last hundred years? I'm not talking about extreme advances or current discoveries; basic science is all I'm talking about. Not at all or perhaps very little, right?

In actual fact statements, descriptions, and references to basic facts of chemistry change every year. Why? Money, that's why. Publishers of text books want to sell more books and the authors of those books want to sell more books. The price of text books is rising dramatically every year (as are profits). It's the single greatest factor in the rise of the cost of higher education. The basic laws of chemistry don't change, but the nomenclature HAS TO change to keep profits high. This issue is a basic source of complaint and confusion on the part of students and educators today. Don't believe me? Visit your local college and talk to one of the doctors there.

The same goes for your religious writings and all the rewriting and reinterpretations from apologists. If you think our knowledge of Chemistry has not changed in the last 100 then how do I expect you to understand the religious studies in the last 100 years?

"What a fool believes he sees,
No wise man can reason away."

[/quote]

HISTORICAL REVISIONISM IS A FACT and simply quoting a source or a scholar from the twentieth century is neither accurate nor of sufficient weight to assume that one has good data; be it chemistry or religion.

Luke and Eusebius?

Someone wrote:
I was amused at you misuse of II Peter as it is referring to the second coming and not to the authorship of Mark.

Whether I misused the quote or not is a matter for your personal opinion. You are entitled to that.
My purpose in using the quote was to illustrate my point; and I am entitled to do that as much as you are.[/quote]

You have done none of the above.

You foolishly assume that all truth is contained in print from recent times. Do you believe everything you read or just that which fits your personal agenda? If so, I'm sure that you are in the company of those who've seen Elvis recently; that data is from the last hundred years as well.

"What a fool believes he sees,
No wise man can reason away."
WHAT A FOOL BELIEVES (1980) The Doobie Brothers

The fact remains that the prophecy states that mockers will come and you have proved yourself to be one over and over again.

Thank you once again for proving the words to be true.

It is bad enough you over work the fool but it seems to fit yourself much better. I don’t “foolishly assume all truth is contained in print from recent times� while you seem to think all writings in a collection of writings is factual from 1900 years ago.
I go with the scholarship and not some esoteric reinterpretation or another reinterpretation backed up with a pseudo-writing used to explain or compensate for the failure of prophesies in the past.
You also misused the ext as it is about the return of Jesus not my critic of your interpretations. This is typical of amateur apologists. You believe what you see or want to see do to indoctrination and no reasoning is going to convince you otherwise. What we have shown is your true is untrue and fails to fit the facts.

[Choir Loft]

Someone wrote:
" you seem to think all writings in a collection of writings is factual from 1900 years ago....I go with the scholarship"

Say hello to Elvis for me....and don't take any courses in Chemistry.

[Cathar1950]

Someone wrote:
" you seem to think all writings in a collection of writings is factual from 1900 years ago....I go with the scholarship"

Say hello to Elvis for me....and don't take any courses in Chemistry.

Say hello to Jesus for me.
I don't know why you bother to read anything else.
Someone quoted:

"What a fool believes he sees,
No wise man can reason away."

It fits you well.

[McCulloch]

Moderator Warning

Please review the Rules.

Someone quoted:

"What a fool believes he sees,
No wise man can reason away."

It fits you well.

Refrain from making negative comments about other debaters.

When the moderators feel the rules have been violated, a notice will frequently occur within the thread where the violation occurred, pointing out the violation and perhaps providing other moderator comments. Moderator warnings and comments are made publicly, within the thread, so that all members may see when and how the rules are being interpreted and enforced. However, note that any challenges or replies to moderator comments or warnings should be made via Private Message. This is so that threads do not get derailed into discussions about the rules.

[Choir Loft]

Note the following news link about the abnormally high cost of college text books.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2010/new ... ffs/6.html

[McCulloch]

Note the following news link about the abnormally high cost of college text books.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2010/new ... ffs/6.html

Publishers charge abnormally high prices for text books because they can. There is no need for any conspiracy theory here. The demand is highly inelastic and the suppliers are, for the most part monopolies or near monopolies. Press runs are small and the shelf life is short. A very simple application of first year economics would predict a high price.

[McCulloch]

Moderator Caution

Say hello to Elvis for me....and don't take any courses in Chemistry.

Let's try to keep this a little less flippant and a bit more civil.

[motivationalstories]

We live in time, whereat many Bible's prophecies are filling. We also live in time, which is very near Yeshua's (Jesus) second coming.

People have been saying that for centuries. What is it that makes the current crop of this kind of claim any more valid than the scores of other failed claims?

There are a number of reasons for coming to the conclusion that Jesus' return is imminent. Not all of them are from the Bible. Somebody asked Jesus how folks would know and he said that the season of things or the climate of the times would be the biggest clue.

One of the biggest clues Jesus said would be a massive increase in violence; like no other time in recorded history. It's true enough. Murder and crimes of violence are greater than ever before. Take for instance Central Park in New York City. As recently as the beginning of the twentieth century, violent crime did not affect those who enjoyed the park. NY City muggings are so common today that they've become a joke, not to mention those of other cities such as L.A., Chicago, etc. The entire nation of Italy is known no longer for its beauty and art, but for its thievery and muggings. I could go on and on, but you should have the picture. Never before has such violence ruled the earth. Not only is it great, but we've become used to it. Read the history books; never before has it been this way.

Another clue is a prophesied increase in pollution. Don't need to quote facts and figures here as we all know the problem is due to industrial development which never happened until the modern age. The ancients couldn't even conceive of such a thing, yet here we are enjoying the poisonous soup we live in.

Yet another ancient prophecy (and this is one not limited to the Bible) is that there would be signs and wonders in the heavens. We have become so accustomed to space flight and observation of astronomical wonders on other planets that we've missed this subtle, yet amazingly important clue. In the days of the ancients, such things happened once every few centuries. Today they are as common as a sunrise.

The establishment of the modern state of Israel was predicted thousands of years ago. Never before has such a thing happened where a nation and people was totally destroyed and scattered and then returned to the actual place where it started complete with the ancient language, customs, religion, even the indigenous dogs which were once thought to be extinct.

There are dozens and scores of other ancient prophecies including non-Biblical ones which predicted that the ancient gods would rise again. True enough. All the old pagan rites and religions are rising again as if from the very grave. Whether you believe these religions or not, you ought to know that they are becoming important all over again. That too has never happened.

We are living in the most interesting and perilous days of all human history. Nothing like these times has EVER happened before. The wise man will take note. The fool will bury his head in the sand and pretend that nothing has changed (as satellites and jet aircraft whizz overhead, as violence sweeps through his neighborhood and as the gospel and all manner of satanic and pagan religions sweep across the planet).

The season is upon us and demonstrates to even the most casual observer that the time of Jesus return is imminent.

Excellent post - I always find other historical documents so enlightening when taking the Bible in context of those times.