Subjective Morality

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Bust Nak
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Re: Subjective Morality

Post #611

Post by Bust Nak »

The Tanager wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:55 pmI don't see how you have the power to obligate him. You have the power to want him to follow your desire and he can't stop that, sure.
Again, why not both? Here is a google definition of obligate: "require or compel (someone) to undertake a legal or moral duty." Wanting Johnny to follow my desire to not abuse children seem to fit the bill as an example of requiring Johnny to undertake a moral duty.
You can want the economic policy to not be passed. The lawmakers have the authority to decide, though. A police officer has authority to do certain actions that non-police officers do not.
Sure, but we weren't talking about enacting an economic policy, nor enforcing certain actions. These would be the compelling and legal side of obligation.

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Re: Subjective Morality

Post #612

Post by The Tanager »

[Replying to Bust Nak in post #611]

In post 601 you said the authority was something beyond your subjective desire for your wishes to be fulfilled. Here, obligation and authority is just another way to say "I desire X."

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Re: Subjective Morality

Post #613

Post by Bust Nak »

[Replying to The Tanager in post #612]

Doesn't sound like the same thing to me when I want X doesn't necessarily mean someone is required to do X.

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Re: Subjective Morality

Post #614

Post by The Tanager »

So, what's the extra bit that gets you from "Bust Nak desires Johnny to follow his desire on the treatment of children" to "Johnny is obligated to follow Bust Nak's desire on the treatment of children"? If you think you have given it, then please do so again, because I don't think you have. I think you have said both are true and, at times, acted as though your explanation for your desire is good enough an explanation for Johnny's obligation but if they are different concepts, then they require different explanations.

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Re: Subjective Morality

Post #615

Post by Bust Nak »

[Replying to The Tanager in post #614]

The extra bit is my insistence that he does it.

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Re: Subjective Morality

Post #616

Post by The Tanager »

Bust Nak wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:26 pm [Replying to The Tanager in post #614]

The extra bit is my insistence that he does it.
So, one's insistence that X is true proves it is objectively true?

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Re: Subjective Morality

Post #617

Post by Bust Nak »

The Tanager wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:43 am So, one's insistence that X is true proves it is objectively true?
No? I don't really understand where this question came from. Does "one's insistence that X is true proves it is objectively true that one has insisted on X being true" help?

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Re: Subjective Morality

Post #618

Post by The Tanager »

Bust Nak wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:39 amNo? I don't really understand where this question came from. Does "one's insistence that X is true proves it is objectively true that one has insisted on X being true" help?
We are talking about two things: (1) your desire that Johnny do what you want and (2) having this desire obligates Johnny to do it. I asked you to support (2) being true (i.e., what's the extra bit that gets 2?). You said "the extra bit is my insistence that he does it."

If all you mean by obligation/authority, is that you insist X is true, then that is just another way to say (1), that you desire Johnny to do what you want. But you said obligation went beyond this into (2). What is your support for (2)?

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Re: Subjective Morality

Post #619

Post by Bust Nak »

[Replying to The Tanager in post #618]

Okay, I think I see what you are getting at. "I desire that Johnny to do what I want" is not the same as "I insist that Johnny to do what I want;" but "I insist that Johnny to do what I want" is another way of saying "Johnny is obligated to do what I want." The truth of "I insist that Johnny to do what I want" can be easily demonstrated by my testimony.

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Re: Subjective Morality

Post #620

Post by The Tanager »

[Replying to Bust Nak in post #619]

How is 'insist' different than 'desire' for you? That's what I'm not seeing.

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