How can I believe what I do not believe?

[Zzyzx]

How can I believe what I do not believe?

I am often counseled to “just read the bible and believe” and told that I must “believe” to be “saved from damnation”.

I cannot bring myself to believe the claims that are made – giants, and angels, and devils, and talking snakes, and every animal in the world in a boat, etc. Yet, Christians say over and over, “just believe” or “believe on faith alone” – and you will be “saved”.

Can I just suddenly believe if I get scared just before I die and be admitted to heaven? Is there any rule against that?

[arayhay]

How can I believe what I do not believe?

I am often counseled to “just read the bible and believe” and told that I must “believe” to be “saved from damnation”.

I cannot bring myself to believe the claims that are made – giants, and angels, and devils, and talking snakes, and every animal in the world in a boat, etc. Yet, Christians say over and over, “just believe” or “believe on faith alone” – and you will be “saved”.

Can I just suddenly believe if I get scared just before I die and be admitted to heaven? Is there any rule against that?

The first thing i'd tell you to do is look into the oldest form of studying the Scriptures,
PaRDeS;
p=pashot / plan, straight forward, it says what it means view.
r = remes / hint, the portion of Scripture 'hints at something else
d = derash / midrash, take fs and put them together logically
sod = hidden, Kabbalah and numerology are ads here

[Greatest I Am]

I understand the difficulty of the task especially if, like most, you think of our departure from the garden as a penalty. Consider though where we as animals would be if we had chosen the garden of ignorance.

Even if you don't consider departure from the garden as punishment, the passages I quoted are difficult to see any other way.

Eve chose to learn instead of laying back to a life of worthlessness. She would gladly accept any woes in order that mankind have a life worth living.

I don't see a basis for this in scripture. I know it's what you believe, but i just don't see a basis for it.

God works with logic. If this is the logical solution then to me it must be correct. The other option of embracing ignorance. This cannot be the answer.

To believe as most makes God a looser in the beginning as well as at the flood and Sodom. God is not a looser and we have portrayed His as such for a long time. Should we not now understand God properly and give Him the power and perfection that is due Him?

Regards
DL

[The Persnickety Platypus]

How can I believe what I do not believe?

I am often counseled to “just read the bible and believe” and told that I must “believe” to be “saved from damnation”.

You must abandon all logical intuition and manipulate your mind into accepting an alternate state of reality where men walk on water and snakes talk.

You first mistake was trying to actually think through the matter. Don't try to reason through the scientific plausibility of a talking snake. Just believe.

[Zzyzx]

How can I believe what I do not believe?

I am often counseled to “just read the bible and believe” and told that I must “believe” to be “saved from damnation”.

You must abandon all logical intuition and manipulate your mind into accepting an alternate state of reality where men walk on water and snakes talk.

You first mistake was trying to actually think through the matter. Don't try to reason through the scientific plausibility of a talking snake. Just believe.

I understand and agree. I have sinned by questioning and applying reason. I have not believed.

[Zzyzx]

God works with logic. If this is the logical solution then to me it must be correct. The other option of embracing ignorance. This cannot be the answer.

To believe as most makes God a looser in the beginning as well as at the flood and Sodom. God is not a looser and we have portrayed His as such for a long time. Should we not now understand God properly and give Him the power and perfection that is due Him?

GIA, I am willing to reason with you in a non-adversarial, cooperative manner toward a proper understanding of a God that "works with logic".

Being a non-believer, as you may be aware, I might provide insights not available to those who are deeply committed. I am willing to modify my thinking upon encountering evidence of truth.

Where does one start? With the bible? Must one accept resurrection and afterlife to believe in the God we discuss?

[Greatest I Am]

How can I believe what I do not believe?

I am often counseled to “just read the bible and believe” and told that I must “believe” to be “saved from damnation”.

You must abandon all logical intuition and manipulate your mind into accepting an alternate state of reality where men walk on water and snakes talk.

You first mistake was trying to actually think through the matter. Don't try to reason through the scientific plausibility of a talking snake. Just believe.

Worse bit of advice I ever read.

The Bible was not meant to be read literally. Please do not believe in talking snakes or fish that spit out men after three days.

Regards
DL

[Zzyzx]

How can I believe what I do not believe?

I am often counseled to “just read the bible and believe” and told that I must “believe” to be “saved from damnation”.

You must abandon all logical intuition and manipulate your mind into accepting an alternate state of reality where men walk on water and snakes talk.

You first mistake was trying to actually think through the matter. Don't try to reason through the scientific plausibility of a talking snake. Just believe.

Worse bit of advice I ever read.

The Bible was not meant to be read literally. Please do not believe in talking snakes or fish that spit out men after three days.

GIA,

I agree that the bible is not meant to be read literally. I regard accounts of talking snakes and days in a fish as being mythical tales invented to convey a “moral”.

I regard tales of walking on water, virgin birth, resurrection, ascension, an afterlife, and supernatural beings to be mythical also. Do you agree?

The problem I see in “bible stories as myth” is that is that “once you start unraveling a knitted sweater how do you stop”? There is no clear demarcation between what is “really true” and what is “just a story”. I can see absolutely no way to recognize truth from fable when it is all presented mixed together and all presented as “the word of god”.

[Greatest I Am]

How can I believe what I do not believe?

I am often counseled to “just read the bible and believe” and told that I must “believe” to be “saved from damnation”.

You must abandon all logical intuition and manipulate your mind into accepting an alternate state of reality where men walk on water and snakes talk.

You first mistake was trying to actually think through the matter. Don't try to reason through the scientific plausibility of a talking snake. Just believe.

Worse bit of advice I ever read.

The Bible was not meant to be read literally. Please do not believe in talking snakes or fish that spit out men after three days.

GIA,

I agree that the bible is not meant to be read literally. I regard accounts of talking snakes and days in a fish as being mythical tales invented to convey a “moral”.

I regard tales of walking on water, virgin birth, resurrection, ascension, an afterlife, and supernatural beings to be mythical also. Do you agree?

GIA wrote
To a point. God Himself I think, must in the end be called mythical. He is real of course but I think until He actually shows up, we may have to put up with that label. This may be the way of things. It is up to believers to lead by example and justify as best we can our belief.
Poor choice of wording, I hope I make sence here.

The problem I see in “bible stories as myth” is that is that “once you start unraveling a knitted sweater how do you stop”? There is no clear demarcation between what is “really true” and what is “just a story”. I can see absolutely no way to recognize truth from fable when it is all presented mixed together and all presented as “the word of god”.

This unsure quality may have been left in so that we can use our own judgement in evaluating the stories within the Bible.

Jesus is the way and if you read with compassion and inclusion in mind then you cannot loose.

Regards
DL

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Worse bit of advice I ever read.

The Bible was not meant to be read literally. Please do not believe in talking snakes or fish that spit out men after three days.

And to what do you attribute this knowledge?

The Bible explicitly states that Adam and Eve were adressed to by a talking snake, and that Jonah spent three days in the belly of a fish/whale. What else am I to believe? Is there fine print somewhere indicating to the reader not to take these inane stories litterally?

[Greatest I Am]

Worse bit of advice I ever read.

The Bible was not meant to be read literally. Please do not believe in talking snakes or fish that spit out men after three days.

And to what do you attribute this knowledge?

GIA wrote
I believe none of what I hear and half of what I see as a mater of course.
Common sence states that if we only have Adam and Eve in the beginning then incest is inevitable. This is not a situation that God would create.
Many other reasons but one at a time.

The Bible explicitly states that Adam and Eve were addressed to by a talking snake, and that Jonah spent three days in the belly of a fish/whale. What else am I to believe? Is there fine print somewhere indicating to the reader not to take these inane stories literally?

Yes. The fine print is your fine, God given, mind.

To take the Bible literally means accepting a God who is inept in creating and even after a number of attempts still ends up with an ugly evil earth.
This is not God.

Don't get me wrong, the Bible is the best road map to Gog and Jesus was His best and last prophet.

Regards
DL