Does God exist?

[otseng]

Does God exist? What reasons are there to believe that God is real?


Admin note:
This thread used to be called "Does God exist or not?"
I have renamed this thread to be "Does God exist?"
Another thread has been created to discuss God's nonexistence, "Disproving God".

[kimberly5699]

What is it that you find so confusing about the bible?

One thing I find confusing is how many of the things it says seem to clash dramatically with our other observations of the world. Actually, I don't find that confusing, I have a very simple explanation for such discrepancies.

If you don't mind me backing up for a sec...

The point is it is easy to believe in something that you can see or put your hands on but it requires faith to believe in something that you can't see... You don't have to see something to believe in it. What is it exactly that you believe in?

I believe in a number of things that I can't see. I'm pretty sure that the air exists, because I can feel it blowing on me sometimes when I'm outside. I'm pretty certain that X-rays exist, because even though I can't feel or perceive them directly in any way, I don't know how else the doctors would get all those pictures of what my bones look like. So although I can't see God, I'd still be willing to believe that he exists, if there was some similar kind of evidence presented to me. And it wouldn't require faith to do so, were that the case.

For the sake of argument, I believe in the almighty Invisible Pink Unicorns, who created the Universe and who watch over us all. Their holy book also claims that those who have faith in Them are greater than those who have seen, or something along those lines. Their book also talks about the origins of the Universe in what we refer to as the Big Bang, and accurately describes a number of scientifically-verified descriptions of observable phenomena in the Universe. There's no evidence for their existence or the genuine authorship of the book, but we both seem to agree that this just makes me even greater!

So where's the flaw in my belief system here?

You are saying that it clashes with the world but you don't give specific details. How can there be a flaw when you are generalizing what you believe in and not stating anything specific. So here I go, this is exactly what I believe in. I believe that Jesus was God in the flesh on earth, I believe he died on the cross for my sins and I believe that he rose from the dead. I have accepted Jesus into my heart and believe that I will be going to heaven and that Jesus will come back to earth again and judge the entire world. I believe that if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your personal lord and savior then you will go to hell and all of that is in the bible.

Where's the flaw in my belief system here?

[The Hungry Atheist]

You are saying that it clashes with the world but you don't give specific details. How can there be a flaw when you are generalizing what you believe in and not stating anything specific.

Oh, there are plenty of specifics, I can get going on them if you like. The Genesis story of Creation has plenty, not least regarding the age of the Universe, which all reliable scientific study determines to be billions of years old. If the Biblical time-line is true, it would only be around 6,000 years old. That's quite a discrepancy between what we observe around us and what's written in the Bible. Let me know if I should continue, but there's dozens of such discussions already present elsewhere on this forum.

Where's the flaw in my belief system here?

I asked first You haven't done anything to destroy the Unicorn system that I mentioned yet. Is it equally valid as yours?

[kimberly5699]

You are saying that it clashes with the world but you don't give specific details. How can there be a flaw when you are generalizing what you believe in and not stating anything specific.

Oh, there are plenty of specifics, I can get going on them if you like. The Genesis story of Creation has plenty, not least regarding the age of the Universe, which all reliable scientific study determines to be billions of years old. If the Biblical time-line is true, it would only be around 6,000 years old. That's quite a discrepancy between what we observe around us and what's written in the Bible. Let me know if I should continue, but there's dozens of such discussions already present elsewhere on this forum.

Where's the flaw in my belief system here?

I asked first You haven't done anything to destroy the Unicorn system that I mentioned yet. Is it equally valid as yours?

Please understand that it is not my intention to be heinous and blast you out of the water. This is simply a conversation amongst two people with different beliefs. I only ask is that if you believe in Pink Unicorns what do you have to back up that theory?

[The Hungry Atheist]

Ah, but in asking that question aren't you changing tack somewhat? What happened to "greater is he that doesn't see and still believes than he who has seen"? I haven't seen the Unicorns, but I still believe. Doesn't that make me great?

Okay, dropping the act for a moment, I'm sure you'd agree that it would probably make me more "mentally unstable" than "great" to believe such a theory, or at least slightly odd and eccentric (no offence meant to any Pink Unicornists here). And, actually, you're right to ask how I back my theory up - the same should be asked of any theory. The Unicorns aren't really under discussion here, because they're not being proposed as a serious concept, at least not by me - so the more pertinent issue is, what do you have to back up your theory that the Christian God exists?

[kimberly5699]

Ah, but in asking that question aren't you changing tack somewhat? What happened to "greater is he that doesn't see and still believes than he who has seen"? I haven't seen the Unicorns, but I still believe. Doesn't that make me great?

Okay, dropping the act for a moment, I'm sure you'd agree that it would probably make me more "mentally unstable" than "great" to believe such a theory, or at least slightly odd and eccentric (no offence meant to any Pink Unicornists here). And, actually, you're right to ask how I back my theory up - the same should be asked of any theory. The Unicorns aren't really under discussion here, because they're not being proposed as a serious concept, at least not by me - so the more pertinent issue is, what do you have to back up your theory that the Christian God exists?

no I am not changing tact, I believe in God and I have not seen them. If you believe in Unicorns and haven't seen them how is that changing? And yes one would have to agree that people would label you as unstable in believing unicorns are the higher power in this world. You still haven't said what you believe in exactly. My belief in God and I also believe that Satan exist and it is based upon the word of God, i.e. the Bible. The bible has been around for many years and it's concepts and parables are still applicable now. I base my life on the Godly principles in the bible, I believe that I am under the new "law" which is the New Testiment, when Jesus died he fufilled the prophecy of the Old Testiment. But no, I have never seen God and most people want to see before they believe. You know it is amazing how everybody is different and how each mind inteprets things differently. People that believe and worship Satan have never professed to me they have seen Satan but yet they believe? Go figure....

[concerro]

Ah, but in asking that question aren't you changing tack somewhat? What happened to "greater is he that doesn't see and still believes than he who has seen"? I haven't seen the Unicorns, but I still believe. Doesn't that make me great?

Okay, dropping the act for a moment, I'm sure you'd agree that it would probably make me more "mentally unstable" than "great" to believe such a theory, or at least slightly odd and eccentric (no offence meant to any Pink Unicornists here). And, actually, you're right to ask how I back my theory up - the same should be asked of any theory. The Unicorns aren't really under discussion here, because they're not being proposed as a serious concept, at least not by me - so the more pertinent issue is, what do you have to back up your theory that the Christian God exists?

no I am not changing tact, I believe in God and I have not seen them. If you believe in Unicorns and haven't seen them how is that changing? And yes one would have to agree that people would label you as unstable in believing unicorns are the higher power in this world. You still haven't said what you believe in exactly. My belief in God and I also believe that Satan exist and it is based upon the word of God, i.e. the Bible. The bible has been around for many years and it's concepts and parables are still applicable now. I base my life on the Godly principles in the bible, I believe that I am under the new "law" which is the New Testiment, when Jesus died he fufilled the prophecy of the Old Testiment. But no, I have never seen God and most people want to see before they believe. You know it is amazing how everybody is different and how each mind inteprets things differently. People that believe and worship Satan have never professed to me they have seen Satan but yet they believe? Go figure....

What are Godly principles?
How does one tell Godly principles from ungodly ones?

[kimberly5699]

Ah, but in asking that question aren't you changing tack somewhat? What happened to "greater is he that doesn't see and still believes than he who has seen"? I haven't seen the Unicorns, but I still believe. Doesn't that make me great?

Okay, dropping the act for a moment, I'm sure you'd agree that it would probably make me more "mentally unstable" than "great" to believe such a theory, or at least slightly odd and eccentric (no offence meant to any Pink Unicornists here). And, actually, you're right to ask how I back my theory up - the same should be asked of any theory. The Unicorns aren't really under discussion here, because they're not being proposed as a serious concept, at least not by me - so the more pertinent issue is, what do you have to back up your theory that the Christian God exists?

no I am not changing tact, I believe in God and I have not seen them. If you believe in Unicorns and haven't seen them how is that changing? And yes one would have to agree that people would label you as unstable in believing unicorns are the higher power in this world. You still haven't said what you believe in exactly. My belief in God and I also believe that Satan exist and it is based upon the word of God, i.e. the Bible. The bible has been around for many years and it's concepts and parables are still applicable now. I base my life on the Godly principles in the bible, I believe that I am under the new "law" which is the New Testiment, when Jesus died he fufilled the prophecy of the Old Testiment. But no, I have never seen God and most people want to see before they believe. You know it is amazing how everybody is different and how each mind inteprets things differently. People that believe and worship Satan have never professed to me they have seen Satan but yet they believe? Go figure....

What are Godly principles?
How does one tell Godly principles from ungodly ones?

They are laws in the bible christians are to follow. Goldy principles line up with the bible and ungodly ones don't.

[The Hungry Atheist]

I believe in God and I have not seen them. If you believe in Unicorns and haven't seen them how is that changing?

I'll clarify what I was getting at - when I claimed to believe in the Unicorns, you rightly called me to account and demanded justification of my belief. However, judging by what you said previously, you don't seem to consider your own beliefs to require justification. Consider the following questions:

- I believe in Invisible Pink Unicorns, even though I've never seen them. Is my belief justified?
- You believe in the Christian God, even though you've never seen Him. Is your belief justified?

The answers to these two must surely be the same - the only thing that can be different is if some kind of observable evidence makes one of our beliefs more likely than the other. So, what evidence makes your God more likely than my Unicorns? Yes, you have the Bible, but I have my Unicorns' holy book, so what evidence makes your Bible likely to be true?

Or, is no justification required, and is my belief just as valid as yours?

[concerro]

Ah, but in asking that question aren't you changing tack somewhat? What happened to "greater is he that doesn't see and still believes than he who has seen"? I haven't seen the Unicorns, but I still believe. Doesn't that make me great?

Okay, dropping the act for a moment, I'm sure you'd agree that it would probably make me more "mentally unstable" than "great" to believe such a theory, or at least slightly odd and eccentric (no offence meant to any Pink Unicornists here). And, actually, you're right to ask how I back my theory up - the same should be asked of any theory. The Unicorns aren't really under discussion here, because they're not being proposed as a serious concept, at least not by me - so the more pertinent issue is, what do you have to back up your theory that the Christian God exists?

no I am not changing tact, I believe in God and I have not seen them. If you believe in Unicorns and haven't seen them how is that changing? And yes one would have to agree that people would label you as unstable in believing unicorns are the higher power in this world. You still haven't said what you believe in exactly. My belief in God and I also believe that Satan exist and it is based upon the word of God, i.e. the Bible. The bible has been around for many years and it's concepts and parables are still applicable now. I base my life on the Godly principles in the bible, I believe that I am under the new "law" which is the New Testiment, when Jesus died he fufilled the prophecy of the Old Testiment. But no, I have never seen God and most people want to see before they believe. You know it is amazing how everybody is different and how each mind inteprets things differently. People that believe and worship Satan have never professed to me they have seen Satan but yet they believe? Go figure....

What are Godly principles?
How does one tell Godly principles from ungodly ones?

They are laws in the bible christians are to follow. Goldy principles line up with the bible and ungodly ones don't.

God has broken many of the rules he has made. A Godly rule(unless that is just your way to describe it) should apply to a god also. If someone cant follow their own rules then why should I do it?

If God is always just and wise etc, then it would make sense that for me to please him the most I would do exactly as he does, but many of his actions would get me sent to hell after I die and put in jail while I am still alive. The only I can think of is he is giving me an example of what not to do

[kimberly5699]

I believe in God and I have not seen them. If you believe in Unicorns and haven't seen them how is that changing?

I'll clarify what I was getting at - when I claimed to believe in the Unicorns, you rightly called me to account and demanded justification of my belief. However, judging by what you said previously, you don't seem to consider your own beliefs to require justification. Consider the following questions:

- I believe in Invisible Pink Unicorns, even though I've never seen them. Is my belief justified?
- You believe in the Christian God, even though you've never seen Him. Is your belief justified?

The answers to these two must surely be the same - the only thing that can be different is if some kind of observable evidence makes one of our beliefs more likely than the other. So, what evidence makes your God more likely than my Unicorns? Yes, you have the Bible, but I have my Unicorns' holy book, so what evidence makes your Bible likely to be true?

Or, is no justification required, and is my belief just as valid as yours?
[/quote

The one difference is that the son of God walked this earth and performed miracles, died on the cross and rose from the dead and that was Jesus Christ.