What is Real? How do YOU define Real?

[Compassionist]

As Morpheus asked in 'The Matrix', "What is real? How do you define real?"

We don't know reality directly. We appear to know our sensory-cognitive-affective model of reality as it appears to be generated by the brain. One is considered psychotic if one perceives things, not perceived by others.

Are you familiar with the concept of Maya in Hinduism? Maya means illusion and states that this perceptual world that is sensed by our senses and measured by science is an illusion i.e. not what it seems. It is impossible to disprove it. This is why I am a strong agnostic about the ultimate nature of reality although I am not agnostic about the apparent nature of reality.

Does the workings of the brain produce the mind or is the brain an illusion perceived by an immortal soul? How would I know for sure? How would you or anyone else know for sure? Do any of you really exist or are you all part of a dream or a hallucination I am experiencing?

[Tuddrussell]

Many-worlds interpretation, parallel universes, time travel, if you actually looked anything up, and did research then the science would become apparent.

A lion doesn't know anything about you, does that mean you don't exist?

If you say that now exists, then do you acknowledge that things have come before it, and that things will come after? If you do, then time must exist.

Time is a measure, but it is also a concept... just because something isn't made of atoms, or can be touched doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Time will go on existing even if nothing is there to percieve it... If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, the sound waves will still be produced.

[Tuddrussell]

Also, why I believe in gods is kind of personal, and any experiances that I've had with thesse gods are REALLY personal.

[bernee51]

Many-worlds interpretation, parallel universes, time travel, if you actually looked anything up, and did research then the science would become apparent.

Until there is empirical evidence all of the above are 'science fiction'. Provide some evidenec on which you base these as 'fact'.

A lion doesn't know anything about you, does that mean you don't exist?

Do I exist? What is meant by "I". Is the "I" i was 20 years ago still an extant being? Ten years ago? Five? Five minutes? Where do you draw the line?

If you say that now exists, then do you acknowledge that things have come before it, and that things will come after? If you do, then time must exist.

I acknowledge there were past instances of 'now' in which and with which I had a relationship. But they no longer exists. The "I" that was in relationship with them also no longer exists.

We measure the distance between these perceived events and call it time. But is is the distance between two no longer existing instances of 'now' and itself cannot exist in reality.

Time is a measure, but it is also a concept... just because something isn't made of atoms, or can be touched doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

So you say.

Time will go on existing even if nothing is there to percieve it... If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, the sound waves will still be produced.

Will they? How do you know?

[Tuddrussell]

Do you believe in wind?

You can't see wind, only it's effects.

You can't catch wind in a bottle, or it would just be air.

Even if all air in the universe were to go away, wind would still exist, it just would no longer be applicable, just like how my granny still exists even though she is long since dead, and burned.

Do you love your family? If you don't believe in things you can't touch, or create a clear mental picture of then the love you feel is not real, so go right now and tell them that you do not love them, that the love you feel for them does not exist.

[Tuddrussell]

Science fiction...?

Ye gods man! Must you be so disrespectful to scientists, and their field?

Just because something doesn't have evidence doesn't mean it's not valid!

Provide evidence for your beliefs, and then I'll spend a few minutes sifting through the vast amounts of data, and equations need to prove my point.

[Tuddrussell]

The past, and future exist.

think of it this way: If you are on a road trip from san francisco to new york, and you are currently in memphis, does that mean new york, and san francisco don't exist?

Just because you are not immediately experiencing something does not mean they don't exist, haven't you evolved past that belief?

Say you are being attacked by a lion, would closing your eyes, and cupping your ears be the best way to not be killed?

[bernee51]

[Tuddrussell]

So to answer your question - all we perceive of existence 'resides' in the noosphere and is illusion in that it is a mental construct whcih is in constant flux. It indeed is maya, like all concepts, maya exists in the noosphere.

So you concede that concepts do exist?

Which is my entire point: Just because it isn't made of atoms doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

If you think something then that thought exists, your memory of the thought exists, and the thought exists in the past, which is more than just a memory... There is evidence that the past exists, right now I am having a discussion with you from the past, and you from the future might continue it.

My concept of reality is far more inclusive than yours, I believe that the "noosphere" is real, and the things that are within are just as real as the things without.

My reality is the thingy where everything resides, it is above everything else, our universe is just one of many others, and even within there are many different "timelines", and other earths, and endless possibility.

Your reality is the physical world, and maybe the universe, or at least a severely limited one.

I apologise for attacking you, it was rude, and built on a logical fallacy: Very young children believe that things they can't see no longer exist, you don't believe in things you can't perceive, therefore you have the mind of a very young child.

[bernee51]

So to answer your question - all we perceive of existence 'resides' in the noosphere and is illusion in that it is a mental construct whcih is in constant flux. It indeed is maya, like all concepts, maya exists in the noosphere.

So you concede that concepts do exist?

Of course concepts exist - that is exactly what I said about time - it exists as a concept.

It is you who claimed, and are yet to demonstrate, that it is something more than a concept.

If you think something then that thought exists, your memory of the thought exists, and the thought exists in the past, which is more than just a memory... There is evidence that the past exists, right now I am having a discussion with you from the past, and you from the future might continue it.

My concept of reality is far more inclusive than yours, I believe that the "noosphere" is real, and the things that are within are just as real as the things without.

Why would I have raised the concept of the noosphere in the manner I did if I did not think it was 'real'

My reality is the thingy where everything resides, it is above everything else,...

The 'thingy'? Above everything else? I have no idea what you are talking about?

...our universe is just one of many others, and even within there are many different "timelines", and other earths, and endless possibility.

Your unsuppported opinion is noted

...
Your reality is the physical world, and maybe the universe, or at least a severely limited one.

You have no idea how wrong you are...

I didn't think you would understand my position

.
I apologise for attacking you, it was rude, and built on a logical fallacy: Very young children believe that things they can't see no longer exist, you don't believe in things you can't perceive, therefore you have the mind of a very young child.

Your total misunderstanding of where I am coming from leads you to yet another ad hominem...even after your 'apology'.

There is no need to apologise...I do not take offence. Insult is just another concept.

I note that you claim to be 19 years old so your seeming ignorance of these matters and misunderstandings are...understandable. At least you are pondering these issues which is a lot more than can be said for many teenagers.

[Cathar1950]