Deep thinking

[Waterfall]

Hello everybody

I have some questions for atheist and theist.

Why do atheist put children into the world?

Nobody wants to be born without legs. Nobody wants a terrible disease. Nobody wants to be murdered.

But all these things happens in this world.

If atheist say that there isn't anything after death, then they are undermining there own ability to put children into the world, because there is nobody (intelligent) who wants to be born into that kind of world.

Have atheist thought about that?

I don´t think Christopher Hitchens (R.I.P.) or Richard Dawkins have thought about that...

Now (some) theist also have a problem, because why do they put children into the world, if God is sending them to a eternal hell?

I think the christian worldview is very strange, because if I put 10 children into the world, then God will send 9 of them to a eternal hell.

Very strange and not a good reason for me to put 10 children into the world.

Maybe I only should put one child into the world...but then I won't be doing Gods will...because God needs 10 children...because 9 have to go to a eternal hell...because that is what the good book say...well...what shall I do?

If I only put 1 child into the world then I destroy this book...because this book is based on me putting many children into the world.

Isn't it?

In fact we could blow the world apart today and the book would have failed completely...but why should we blow the world apart...just to prove a point.

That would be insane...but then again...we are going to die anyway...so why not go out whit a big bang...and stop the madness on earth.

Why do we keep on putting children into the world? Don´t we know the price for that action? How many children will suffer? Are we willing to pay the price for a day more on earth? Who are selling life? Who are buying life?

Do you wanner be born into a world where there is no heaven...where there is no place to put your dead parents? Your dead wife/hosbond...Your dead children...Your dead friends...Yourself.

Don´t we have a good reason to talk about a soul?

Maybe people like Putin don´t have a good reason to talk about a soul...maybe a soul is a scaring thought for them...because they have a lot to answar for.

So there are also a good reason not to talk about a soul...

But here we all should remember that God have a great plan for us all.

Maybe Putin haven´t heard about the great plan...justice...compassion...understanding...forgivenes...love...development...reincarnation.

Lets talk about reincarnation...because I don´t think we have got this right...are the soul created? How many souls are there? How many bodies are there? Are there more souls than bodies?

Now we are back to some kind of strange thinking...because every time there is created a body...then a soul have to fall down from heaven...and so we are in control of that fall...because we can stop putting bodies into the world.

Do the soul fall down from heaven or do it chose to come down from heaven or do it start from earth and then is on a road to heaven? Or? Where did Jesus come from? Heaven? Where did Hitler come from? Hell?

A thought on all this helltalk...because if God (the almighty) have empty the hellworld for resident, then why are we still talking about a hell? Maybe there was a hellworld at one point in time? Maybe it is gone now? Maybe Satan have turn around? Maybe Satan is asking for forgivenes? How great is God?

Who created the human body? Why don´t animals have a soul? When did God connect a soul to the human body? And why? What is the good news? That we have got it all roung? What is the real story about life on earth? Where do we come from? Where are we going? What should we tell our children? See you in heaven? Who is writting the story on earth?

Together we can change the world...but how? What are we going to teach our children? Be a good son/daughter? Well...maybe we should be a good father/mother first?

What kind of world are we putting children into?

Lets say I put 3 women and 6 men on the planet...then I have created a problem for them, because what are they going to do? 1 women and 2 men...is that aloud? What shall they do?

Just thinking out loud...

Here at the end of all this thinking I have to say that my english aint to good, so I hope you will bear with me on this.

And merry christmas to you all

[Bust Nak]

The children have a choice...or a voice...if we think about it...because we can place ourself with all the unborn children on earth.

That's covered by "now that I am born into this kind of world, I am happy that I was." Placing myself with an unborn child, I say yes please, give me life, knowing the risk of having no legs, a terrible disease, and being murdered; knowing the inevitable suffering I will face; knowing there is no heaven, no where to put my dead parents, my dead wife/husband... my dead children...my dead friends... and myself. The answer is yes, it's worth it.

I don't think you've stated it explicitly, but do you wish that you have never been born?

I also want to ask why did you say "all the unborn children," I can only make the decision for myself - one child, I can only evaluate if something is worth it for me, I cannot evaluate it for anyone else. Or am I reading into your post too much?

If me saying no to life can save/prevent someone from a terrible life, then I would say no...

If the price for me saying yes...is that some children (my brothers and sisters) are going to suffer...then I will say no...sorry...but no...I don´t want your miserable offer.

Seems like I have missed your point, I thought we were talking about preventing yourself from having a terrible life by not being born at all, as opposed to trading your own life for the well being of your brothers and sisters. Or perhaps this is a separate point? I am rather attached to my life, now that I have experienced it, but I am willing to part with 5 seconds of it to trade for something more worthwhile.

[Waterfall]

The children have a choice...or a voice...if we think about it...because we can place ourself with all the unborn children on earth.

That's covered by "now that I am born into this kind of world, I am happy that I was." Placing myself with an unborn child, I say yes please, give me life, knowing the risk of having no legs, a terrible disease, and being murdered; knowing the inevitable suffering I will face; knowing there is no heaven, no where to put my dead parents, my dead wife/husband... my dead children...my dead friends... and myself. The answer is yes, it's worth it.

I don't think you've stated it explicitly, but do you wish that you have never been born?

I also want to ask why did you say "all the unborn children," I can only make the decision for myself - one child, I can only evaluate if something is worth it for me, I cannot evaluate it for anyone else. Or am I reading into your post too much?

If me saying no to life can save/prevent someone from a terrible life, then I would say no...

If the price for me saying yes...is that some children (my brothers and sisters) are going to suffer...then I will say no...sorry...but no...I don´t want your miserable offer.

Seems like I have missed your point, I thought we were talking about preventing yourself from having a terrible life by not being born at all, as opposed to trading your own life for the well being of your brothers and sisters. Or perhaps this is a separate point? I am rather attached to my life, now that I have experienced it, but I am willing to part with 5 seconds of it to trade for something more worthwhile.

I think we can evaluate life for other people...we do it all the time...this is not a good life...and so on.

What I´m talking about is more like...either we all are in or we all are out.

Then we can exclude the risk...there are only the facts...someone will suffer...we are not talking about maybe...just look at the world.

Its easy to say yes when you are not (currently) suffering...

Now we can´t test your yes in real life...but do you think its fair to say...that (some of) those who say yes now would change there minds on the way to ekstreme suffering? Why did I say yes?

Anyway...maybe there are children who is born...that have said no...in other words...they where force into being...and now they are facing a
psychopath...is that fair?

The problem is that if you say yes then we all go in...its all or nothing...right?

[Divine Insight]

What makes you happy? Friends? Good food? Musik? Books? Creativity? Games? Work? Schools? Hospitals? Knowledge? Wisdom? Truth? Peace? Justice? Compassion? Love? God?

Yes, just about everything on your list makes me happy. With some caveats associated with the last term "God".

Everything on your list represents what I consider to be the "Good" things in life. It would certainly be great if Hospitals don't need to be on the list, but when I have broken bones or a ruptured appendix I'm very happy that hospitals exists.


Notice also that you didn't put anything on your list that isn't likely to make people sad. Wars, crime, natural disasters, disease, authoritarian inhumane dictators, etc.

But YES, there are a lot of positive things in life that makes me happy. And those are typically the things we think of when we say "Life is desirable". What we actually mean is the "Good things in life are desirable".

If you know before you are born that you are going to be placed into a world where you will experience none of those good things you've mentioned but instead all you will experience are the bad things. You'll be constantly suffering, hungry, tired and exhausted, yet being bossed around by an extremely inhumane dictator who constantly demands that you keep working hard doing jobs that nobody wants to do.

If you knew ahead of time that this is what life will have in store for you, would you choose to be born into that world, or would you pass?

It's the good things in life that make life wonderful. And it is the good things in life that make us happy.

Now you placed "God" on the list of things that makes you happy:

I´m not sure I understand you...because I believe that it is so...it make sense to me...do I have to defend that? Why does it make sense to me? Either God exist or God does not exist...I choose to say that God exist...that makes me happy

But now we can ask, "What do you mean by God"?

Would I like there to be an omniscient entity who truly cares about me and can save me when things get seriously bad? SURE! That would be GREAT!

If that's what you mean by "God" then I too would be happy if a God exists. But just because that thought makes me happy doesn't mean that such an entity exists.

It's the THOUGHT of such an entity that might make me happy. But there are also many other imaginary things I can imagine that would make me happy.

Just because I can imagine things that would make me happy doesn't make them so.

If a real Santa Claus existed that would make me happy too!

And finally, let's stop and think about this for a moment:

Let's assume we're going to imagine that a "God" exists. Then we can ask, "Which God would make us the happiest"?

Just to keep things short and sweet, let's imagine 3 different possible Gods to choose from:

1. The God of Christianity
2. The God of Buddhism
3. The Goddess of Wicca

Now of course, we can think of these 3 Gods in many different ways, but there are some things the appear to be fairly fundamental about these three Gods.

1. The God of Christianity

In this picture we are at odds with God. We have disappointed God and have necessarily refused to obey him or cooperate with him. Supposedly it's all our fault. But there's "Good News". This God had his son brutally beaten and crucified on a pole to pay for our unworthiness and he's offering us amnesty and forgiveness as long as we accept this sacrificial penal substitution on our behalf. Otherwise we will be damned to everlasting punishment.

I don't know about you, but that particular scenario does not make me the slightest bit happy. In the very best scenario I have to confess that I am the reason God had to have his only begotten Son brutally crucified on a pole. At worse I could be cast into a state of everlasting punishment.

This is not a situation that would make me "happy" at all. Even the best outcome would make me extremely "sad" and "depressed".

So believing in this God would not make me happy. The best scenario is extremely depressing, IMHO.

2. The God of Buddhism

In Buddhism everyone lives forever through an endless cycle of reincarnation. We carry with us our own "karma" which causes us to only suffer the suffering we ourselves have caused others. We may not like these lessons, but the good news is that we actually do learn from them and over time each new life becomes more pleasant for us until we all end up living in "Nirvana" the final state of pristine reincarnation where everyone has learned that it's not good to harm others.

Now, it may be true that everyone does not view Buddhism in this way. But that's not the point here. We are merely comparing 3 different "Imaginary Gods". Remember that imagining that a God exists is what makes us "happy".

So between Christianity and Buddhism I would be far happier if Buddhism was true. No one "loses" in Buddhism. Everyone makes it to "Nirvana".

3. The Goddess of Wicca

Just for fun let me toss in the Goddess of Wicca. And once again, this is only one possible way to view her. We're just having fun imagining different types of Gods so we are free to imagine whatever we like.

In Wicca, we can imagine reincarnation, or we can imagine a single lifetime where after we die we are sent to a better or worse place depending on how we have lived our lives, etc. There is no concrete "Dogma" about this in Wicca. You are free to imagine the Goddess to be however you like.

There is a single "Rede" by which we are supposed to live. "Do as you will but harm none". As long as you don't harm others you're in good shape. I'm not going to worry about what might happen to people who do harm others since that wouldn't apply to me. People who harm others would need to worry about what the Goddess might do to them.

In the meantime the Goddess loves me, and I'm living by Her principle that I can do whatever I want as long as I'm not harming others. So when I die She will be very pleased with me and reward me in the afterlife.

Notice this can be very similar to "Christianity" (if you want it to be) but no demigods are brutally crucified as a sacrificial lamb to pay for your refusal to be in harmony with the wishes of the Goddess.

~~~~~~~

Now given the above options to choose from I would definitely choose to imagine that God is like either #2 or #3. Why would I choose #1 which is clearly the most negative of these three possible Gods? Even in the best scenario of #1 God had to have his innocent Son butchered on a pole to pay for your unworthiness. I just don't see how that could be a "happier" scenario than the other two.

And remember, your argument here is that believing in God makes you HAPPY. That's your criteria to justify believing that God exists.

So I'm just saying if happiness is the criteria, then I can imagine many Gods that are far superior to the God portrayed in Christianity. Christianity is an extremely depressing religion, IMHO. In order for you to be 'saved' an innocent demigod has to be brutally crucified on a pole to pay for your disgusting unworthiness.

How in the world is that a "Happy" scenario?

If I had no choice but to accept that Christianity is true, I could only be extremely depressed about that. It wouldn't make me happy at all, even if I thought I was among the few unworthy people who would be "saved". That would still be an extremely depressing situation.

So no. Christianity being true would NOT make me happy. To the contrary that would be extreme depressing.

[Waterfall]

What makes you happy? Friends? Good food? Musik? Books? Creativity? Games? Work? Schools? Hospitals? Knowledge? Wisdom? Truth? Peace? Justice? Compassion? Love? God?

Yes, just about everything on your list makes me happy. With some caveats associated with the last term "God".

Everything on your list represents what I consider to be the "Good" things in life. It would certainly be great if Hospitals don't need to be on the list, but when I have broken bones or a ruptured appendix I'm very happy that hospitals exists.


Notice also that you didn't put anything on your list that isn't likely to make people sad. Wars, crime, natural disasters, disease, authoritarian inhumane dictators, etc.

But YES, there are a lot of positive things in life that makes me happy. And those are typically the things we think of when we say "Life is desirable". What we actually mean is the "Good things in life are desirable".

If you know before you are born that you are going to be placed into a world where you will experience none of those good things you've mentioned but instead all you will experience are the bad things. You'll be constantly suffering, hungry, tired and exhausted, yet being bossed around by an extremely inhumane dictator who constantly demands that you keep working hard doing jobs that nobody wants to do.

If you knew ahead of time that this is what life will have in store for you, would you choose to be born into that world, or would you pass?

It's the good things in life that make life wonderful. And it is the good things in life that make us happy.

Now you placed "God" on the list of things that makes you happy:

I´m not sure I understand you...because I believe that it is so...it make sense to me...do I have to defend that? Why does it make sense to me? Either God exist or God does not exist...I choose to say that God exist...that makes me happy

But now we can ask, "What do you mean by God"?

Would I like there to be an omniscient entity who truly cares about me and can save me when things get seriously bad? SURE! That would be GREAT!

If that's what you mean by "God" then I too would be happy if a God exists. But just because that thought makes me happy doesn't mean that such an entity exists.

It's the THOUGHT of such an entity that might make me happy. But there are also many other imaginary things I can imagine that would make me happy.

Just because I can imagine things that would make me happy doesn't make them so.

If a real Santa Claus existed that would make me happy too!

And finally, let's stop and think about this for a moment:

Let's assume we're going to imagine that a "God" exists. Then we can ask, "Which God would make us the happiest"?

Just to keep things short and sweet, let's imagine 3 different possible Gods to choose from:

1. The God of Christianity
2. The God of Buddhism
3. The Goddess of Wicca

Now of course, we can think of these 3 Gods in many different ways, but there are some things the appear to be fairly fundamental about these three Gods.

1. The God of Christianity

In this picture we are at odds with God. We have disappointed God and have necessarily refused to obey him or cooperate with him. Supposedly it's all our fault. But there's "Good News". This God had his son brutally beaten and crucified on a pole to pay for our unworthiness and he's offering us amnesty and forgiveness as long as we accept this sacrificial penal substitution on our behalf. Otherwise we will be damned to everlasting punishment.

I don't know about you, but that particular scenario does not make me the slightest bit happy. In the very best scenario I have to confess that I am the reason God had to have his only begotten Son brutally crucified on a pole. At worse I could be cast into a state of everlasting punishment.

This is not a situation that would make me "happy" at all. Even the best outcome would make me extremely "sad" and "depressed".

So believing in this God would not make me happy. The best scenario is extremely depressing, IMHO.

2. The God of Buddhism

In Buddhism everyone lives forever through an endless cycle of reincarnation. We carry with us our own "karma" which causes us to only suffer the suffering we ourselves have caused others. We may not like these lessons, but the good news is that we actually do learn from them and over time each new life becomes more pleasant for us until we all end up living in "Nirvana" the final state of pristine reincarnation where everyone has learned that it's not good to harm others.

Now, it may be true that everyone does not view Buddhism in this way. But that's not the point here. We are merely comparing 3 different "Imaginary Gods". Remember that imagining that a God exists is what makes us "happy".

So between Christianity and Buddhism I would be far happier if Buddhism was true. No one "loses" in Buddhism. Everyone makes it to "Nirvana".

3. The Goddess of Wicca

Just for fun let me toss in the Goddess of Wicca. And once again, this is only one possible way to view her. We're just having fun imagining different types of Gods so we are free to imagine whatever we like.

In Wicca, we can imagine reincarnation, or we can imagine a single lifetime where after we die we are sent to a better or worse place depending on how we have lived our lives, etc. There is no concrete "Dogma" about this in Wicca. You are free to imagine the Goddess to be however you like.

There is a single "Rede" by which we are supposed to live. "Do as you will but harm none". As long as you don't harm others you're in good shape. I'm not going to worry about what might happen to people who do harm others since that wouldn't apply to me. People who harm others would need to worry about what the Goddess might do to them.

In the meantime the Goddess loves me, and I'm living by Her principle that I can do whatever I want as long as I'm not harming others. So when I die She will be very pleased with me and reward me in the afterlife.

Notice this can be very similar to "Christianity" (if you want it to be) but no demigods are brutally crucified as a sacrificial lamb to pay for your refusal to be in harmony with the wishes of the Goddess.

~~~~~~~

Now given the above options to choose from I would definitely choose to imagine that God is like either #2 or #3. Why would I choose #1 which is clearly the most negative of these three possible Gods? Even in the best scenario of #1 God had to have his innocent Son butchered on a pole to pay for your unworthiness. I just don't see how that could be a "happier" scenario than the other two.

And remember, your argument here is that believing in God makes you HAPPY. That's your criteria to justify believing that God exists.

So I'm just saying if happiness is the criteria, then I can imagine many Gods that are far superior to the God portrayed in Christianity. Christianity is an extremely depressing religion, IMHO. In order for you to be 'saved' an innocent demigod has to be brutally crucified on a pole to pay for your disgusting unworthiness.

How in the world is that a "Happy" scenario?

If I had no choice but to accept that Christianity is true, I could only be extremely depressed about that. It wouldn't make me happy at all, even if I thought I was among the few unworthy people who would be "saved". That would still be an extremely depressing situation.

So no. Christianity being true would NOT make me happy. To the contrary that would be extreme depressing.

What do I mean by God?

Maybe I should just point to this description...

http://uk.vandrermodlyset.dk/m-e03.htm

Now you have not read the whole book, so...but I think the description is understandable.

In this book it is told that the falling engels (Gods first children) was the creator of the human body (5 million years ago) and the reason for this world of sin and death.

Just so you have some background and better can understand the text.

By the way...

I know you don´t like the whole thing about Jesus being sacrificed on a cross (me neither), so maybe you would like this short book.

http://www.toward-the-light.net/The%20D ... 0Road.html

A new view on things? Another approach?

With regard to Buddhism...when did it all start and when do it stop?

I like Buddhism and Hinduism...in my younger days I read the Bhagavad Gita and was very interested in the Hare Krishna movement...I like the mantra and dancing and the food and they have some great stories about Krishna...but I was young and we smoked a lot of hashish at the time (me and my friends)...we was just growing up

Today I don´t do drugs...its not good for me...I have thought about trying ayahuasca...but its a powerfull drug, so...

Hmm...do you have a better criteria than happiness?

[Divine Insight]

What do I mean by God?

Maybe I should just point to this description...

http://uk.vandrermodlyset.dk/m-e03.htm

Now you have not read the whole book, so...but I think the description is understandable.

That particular description appears to be nothing more than a Judaeo-Christian argument that merely attempts to belittle the "Elect and Non-Elect" denominations of Christianity in favor of the versions that believe that the Christian God offers salvation to everyone.

None the less, it still appears to be rooted in the same Judaeo-Christian-Biblical paradigm that assumes that men have "fallen into sin" and need to be "saved".

I don't see this as a "Description of God" at all. To the contrary it's just a disagreement within a Christian dogma.

I know you don´t like the whole thing about Jesus being sacrificed on a cross (me neither), so maybe you would like this short book.

It's not a matter of liking or disliking it. The question is, does this idea even make any sense at all? And my answer to that question is, "No, it most certainly does not.", So liking or disliking it is irrelevant.

The whole idea require an extremely inept creator God. A God who couldn't do any better than ancient barbaric men.

After all, it was the Romans who thought that crucifying someone on a pole would solve their problems. So Christianity basically reduces God to being no smarter than the ancient Romans.

With regard to Buddhism...when did it all start and when do it stop?

Well, that's a technical question that Buddhists themselves do not see as being important. However, their current answer would most likely be that the physical universe started with the Big Bang, and will end at some point in the far future. But then it will occur again and again endlessly. Every time producing a totally different experience. Not the same exact thing over and over again.

Don't forget all religions have similarly different question. When did the Judaeo-Christian God start and when will he stop?

Most Christians never bother with this question either. However, if the Christian God is infinite and eternal, then this universe and the earth would only be one tiny drop in the bucket compared with what this God must have been doing for the eternity he existed prior to creating this universe. And surely he wouldn't stop after this earth is over with?

I think most Christians just think that God created the earth and humans. And when the end times come the chosen will go to eternal heaven and the earth will be destroyed. But that would not only be a very small blink in the eternal time of God's existence, but it would even be a very small blink in the time this universe has existed as well. If the end if the Earth represents the end of time for this universe, then this entire universe will need to be cut short when God ends the earth. I'm quite sure that Christians don't even think about, or realize that actual time scales involved.

I like Buddhism and Hinduism...in my younger days I read the Bhagavad Gita and was very interested in the Hare Krishna movement...I like the mantra and dancing and the food and they have some great stories about Krishna...but I was young and we smoked a lot of hashish at the time (me and my friends)...we was just growing up

Today I don´t do drugs...its not good for me...I have thought about trying ayahuasca...but its a powerfull drug, so...

Well westerners tend to view Buddhism as a "party". And often as a "Drug Party" to boot. But that's not the true essence of the philosophy.

By the way, I don't necessarily support the philosophy of Buddhism. I've been starting to think that the secularists may actually be onto to truth of reality. None the less, between Buddhism and Judea-Christianity, Buddhism represents a far more intelligent "God". So between those two religions Buddhism appears to have the more convincing paradigm.

Hmm...do you have a better criteria than happiness?

When humans dream about fantasies happiness will always be their goal unless they are masochistic. For example, most people would like for Santa Claus to exist because it makes them happy to think that a jolly old man would bring them gifts out of the goodness of his heart using magical flying reindeer, and gifts hand-made by elves.

Religion is just the adult version of Santa Claus. A loving God who will bestow gifts upon us beyond our wildest imagination after we die. Assuming that we are nice and not naughty.

We know that there is no actual Santa Claus in the real world. So we have to face the truth that this fantasy was nothing more than wishful thinking.

But since we can't prove that there is no life after death, or that a "God Santa Claus" can't exist, that's a dream we can keep alive forever. And so we do it.

Why? Because, as you say, "It makes us happy to believe it"

[Waterfall]

What do I mean by God?

Maybe I should just point to this description...

http://uk.vandrermodlyset.dk/m-e03.htm

Now you have not read the whole book, so...but I think the description is understandable.

That particular description appears to be nothing more than a Judaeo-Christian argument that merely attempts to belittle the "Elect and Non-Elect" denominations of Christianity in favor of the versions that believe that the Christian God offers salvation to everyone.

None the less, it still appears to be rooted in the same Judaeo-Christian-Biblical paradigm that assumes that men have "fallen into sin" and need to be "saved".

I don't see this as a "Description of God" at all. To the contrary it's just a disagreement within a Christian dogma.

I know you don´t like the whole thing about Jesus being sacrificed on a cross (me neither), so maybe you would like this short book.

It's not a matter of liking or disliking it. The question is, does this idea even make any sense at all? And my answer to that question is, "No, it most certainly does not.", So liking or disliking it is irrelevant.

The whole idea require an extremely inept creator God. A God who couldn't do any better than ancient barbaric men.

After all, it was the Romans who thought that crucifying someone on a pole would solve their problems. So Christianity basically reduces God to being no smarter than the ancient Romans.

With regard to Buddhism...when did it all start and when do it stop?

Well, that's a technical question that Buddhists themselves do not see as being important. However, their current answer would most likely be that the physical universe started with the Big Bang, and will end at some point in the far future. But then it will occur again and again endlessly. Every time producing a totally different experience. Not the same exact thing over and over again.

Don't forget all religions have similarly different question. When did the Judaeo-Christian God start and when will he stop?

Most Christians never bother with this question either. However, if the Christian God is infinite and eternal, then this universe and the earth would only be one tiny drop in the bucket compared with what this God must have been doing for the eternity he existed prior to creating this universe. And surely he wouldn't stop after this earth is over with?

I think most Christians just think that God created the earth and humans. And when the end times come the chosen will go to eternal heaven and the earth will be destroyed. But that would not only be a very small blink in the eternal time of God's existence, but it would even be a very small blink in the time this universe has existed as well. If the end if the Earth represents the end of time for this universe, then this entire universe will need to be cut short when God ends the earth. I'm quite sure that Christians don't even think about, or realize that actual time scales involved.

I like Buddhism and Hinduism...in my younger days I read the Bhagavad Gita and was very interested in the Hare Krishna movement...I like the mantra and dancing and the food and they have some great stories about Krishna...but I was young and we smoked a lot of hashish at the time (me and my friends)...we was just growing up

Today I don´t do drugs...its not good for me...I have thought about trying ayahuasca...but its a powerfull drug, so...

Well westerners tend to view Buddhism as a "party". And often as a "Drug Party" to boot. But that's not the true essence of the philosophy.

By the way, I don't necessarily support the philosophy of Buddhism. I've been starting to think that the secularists may actually be onto to truth of reality. None the less, between Buddhism and Judea-Christianity, Buddhism represents a far more intelligent "God". So between those two religions Buddhism appears to have the more convincing paradigm.

Hmm...do you have a better criteria than happiness?

When humans dream about fantasies happiness will always be their goal unless they are masochistic. For example, most people would like for Santa Claus to exist because it makes them happy to think that a jolly old man would bring them gifts out of the goodness of his heart using magical flying reindeer, and gifts hand-made by elves.

Religion is just the adult version of Santa Claus. A loving God who will bestow gifts upon us beyond our wildest imagination after we die. Assuming that we are nice and not naughty.

We know that there is no actual Santa Claus in the real world. So we have to face the truth that this fantasy was nothing more than wishful thinking.

But since we can't prove that there is no life after death, or that a "God Santa Claus" can't exist, that's a dream we can keep alive forever. And so we do it.

Why? Because, as you say, "It makes us happy to believe it"

If you have read the book you would know that its not just about the Christian God...its about God...its about our origin...its about a lot of things.

As it say here

In 1908 a medium was contacted by intelligences from the spiritual world. The reason was that the transcendental world wished to make humanity acquainted with some facts regarding their origin, their relation to God and the battle between Light and Darkness - good and evil. The wish was also to inform about the true teachings of Christ freed from centuries of additions and distortions, as well as making known some of the divine laws which apply to all living beings in the universe.

Does Christ have a part in the great story on earth?

Why shouldn´t they inform us about the true teachings of Christ freed from centuries of additions and distortions?

Was/is it not relevant?

Christianity is not going away...

Maybe this book is telling the truth about a lot of things?

What happen at the time of Jesus?

What happen at the time of Muhammed?

This book talks about a lot of things...

Do we need this book?

You seem to get along quite well without the book

But I don´t think you can come up with a better story about life/God.

You are welcome to try...

Maybe your best shot will be the story in this book, so...

That would be interesting

What is (this) God offering us? Eternal life? Do we have to do anything? Nothing...just say yes...that sounds great...and then live our life in that context...

Are there rules to be follow? Of course...don´t put more children into the world than you can take care of...and a lot of other rules...

With regard to a loving God coming with gift to us...then you could say that these books are gift, so...maybe Santa Claus does exist

[Divine Insight]

Christianity is not going away...

That all depends on where the human race decides to go. If they go back into the dark ages where superstition rules then religions and religious wars will rule human existence. Because no only will Christianity no go away, but neither will Islam. And they are grave enemies.

On the other hand, if humans manage to eventually grow up and become truly wise they will indeed outgrow all ancient superstitious religions.

But I don´t think you can come up with a better story about life/God.

I guarantee I can write a better fairy tale than the Hebrews wrote. But don't forget also that they wrote their superstitious stories with the constraint of trying fit it in with what was actually happening in their lives. That places constraints on what the fairy tale can actually say.

However, having said that, I've already pointed out the the Buddhists have already written a far better story about life/God, and their story is also compatible with reality.

So the Buddhists beat me to it. There's not much point in me tying to out-do them.

The Buddhists have the Hebrew story of God beat by far. The Buddhists were able to actually come up with a story about an intelligent God. The Hebrews failed miserably in that regard. The Hebrew God isn't any smarter than an immature human adolescent. He's jealous, he throws temper tantrums, and easily become angered. Many mere mortal mature men are far superior in character than the Hebrew God. That should be a dead give-away right there that the Hebrew God can't be true.

[Divine Insight]

But I don´t think you can come up with a better story about life/God.

I would like to address this in a bit more detail.

I personally don't feel that the Bible is a very good story for even what it claims to be. If I were going to write a story about mankind supposedly falling from grace from an all-benevolent God I could have done a far better job than the authors of the Bible.

The story of Adam and Eve supposedly "Falling from Grace" is not the least bit convincing to me. To begin with the story claims that Adam and Eve are totally innocent and aren't even aware of the knowledge of Good and Evil. Therefore the story is an oxymoron from the start. How can totally innocent people knowingly choose evil before they even know what evil is?

Not only that, but in the Biblical story Adam and Eve were so innocent that they had to be deceitfully beguiled by an evil serpent in order to get them to fall from grace. Something they certainly had no choice of avoiding considering that they weren't even aware of evil in the first place. How could they be leery of this evil serpent if they had no clue that evil even exists?

So if I were going to write a story where mankind purposefully chooses to refuse to obey a God I would do precisely that. I would have Adam and Eve plot to disobey God on their own. No need for any evil serpent to beguile them at all. And secondly when God catches them in their plot instead of having them totally confess everything to God and cooperate full (which should have resulted in their amnesty via repentance), I would have had them blatantly standing up against God refusing to cooperate and screaming at him that they are totally determined to not obey him.

After all, if you're going to have humans rebel against a God why not just do it?

The actual story of Adam and Eve in the Bible isn't convincing at all, IMHO. It's already in gross contradiction with it's own claims anyway. It claims that Adam and Eve were being withheld the knowledge of good and evil BEFORE they fell. That's ridiculous and presents an oxymoron because it would be impossible for them to knowingly choose evil before they even know what it means to be evil.

So no, Waterfall, the Bible isn't even well-written for what it claims to be. It's an extremely poorly written fable that doesn't even make any sense at all.

The Bible has Adam and Eve being innocently beguiled by an evil serpent. And then it has Eve confessing to everything and fully cooperating with God even to the point of testifying against the Evil Serpent. Eve should have been exonerated from any wrong-doing right then and there.

So it's a totally failed story. It's not the least bit convincing, IMHO. It's an extremely poorly-thought-out fairy tale. It's not even convincing for what it claims to be happening.

So I could even write a better "Fall from Grace" story than the Bible if I wanted to go that route.

There would be no need for an evil serpent at all. Are you kidding me? If mankind is capable of falling from grace on his own why would an evil serpent be required to deceitfully beguile Eve?

So the Bible isn't even convincing for what it claims to be.

[Waterfall]

Christianity is not going away...

That all depends on where the human race decides to go. If they go back into the dark ages where superstition rules then religions and religious wars will rule human existence. Because no only will Christianity no go away, but neither will Islam. And they are grave enemies.

On the other hand, if humans manage to eventually grow up and become truly wise they will indeed outgrow all ancient superstitious religions.

But I don´t think you can come up with a better story about life/God.

I guarantee I can write a better fairy tale than the Hebrews wrote. But don't forget also that they wrote their superstitious stories with the constraint of trying fit it in with what was actually happening in their lives. That places constraints on what the fairy tale can actually say.

However, having said that, I've already pointed out the the Buddhists have already written a far better story about life/God, and their story is also compatible with reality.

So the Buddhists beat me to it. There's not much point in me tying to out-do them.

The Buddhists have the Hebrew story of God beat by far. The Buddhists were able to actually come up with a story about an intelligent God. The Hebrews failed miserably in that regard. The Hebrew God isn't any smarter than an immature human adolescent. He's jealous, he throws temper tantrums, and easily become angered. Many mere mortal mature men are far superior in character than the Hebrew God. That should be a dead give-away right there that the Hebrew God can't be true.

That is true...but the goal seems pretty clear to me...peace on earth. Can´t muslims and christians live in peace together...they are not at war with each other here in denmark, so...things seems to be going consistent with a good plan

There are good thoughts in both religion.

And those thoughts are timeless...seek the almighty...pray for good things...

With regard to the Hebrew fairy tale...what has it to do with this book? The book is pretty mush saying the same things as you are, and did it a long time ago...1920.

With regard to Buddhism have you then compared the two stories...Buddhism and this book? They are both talking about reincarnation...

But are Buddhism talking about us reincarnating as animals (earthworms and other primitiv lifeforms) or is that only Hinduism? In this book you only reincarnate in a human body...

[Waterfall]

But I don´t think you can come up with a better story about life/God.

I would like to address this in a bit more detail.

I personally don't feel that the Bible is a very good story for even what it claims to be. If I were going to write a story about mankind supposedly falling from grace from an all-benevolent God I could have done a far better job than the authors of the Bible.

The story of Adam and Eve supposedly "Falling from Grace" is not the least bit convincing to me. To begin with the story claims that Adam and Eve are totally innocent and aren't even aware of the knowledge of Good and Evil. Therefore the story is an oxymoron from the start. How can totally innocent people knowingly choose evil before they even know what evil is?

Not only that, but in the Biblical story Adam and Eve were so innocent that they had to be deceitfully beguiled by an evil serpent in order to get them to fall from grace. Something they certainly had no choice of avoiding considering that they weren't even aware of evil in the first place. How could they be leery of this evil serpent if they had no clue that evil even exists?

So if I were going to write a story where mankind purposefully chooses to refuse to obey a God I would do precisely that. I would have Adam and Eve plot to disobey God on their own. No need for any evil serpent to beguile them at all. And secondly when God catches them in their plot instead of having them totally confess everything to God and cooperate full (which should have resulted in their amnesty via repentance), I would have had them blatantly standing up against God refusing to cooperate and screaming at him that they are totally determined to not obey him.

After all, if you're going to have humans rebel against a God why not just do it?

The actual story of Adam and Eve in the Bible isn't convincing at all, IMHO. It's already in gross contradiction with it's own claims anyway. It claims that Adam and Eve were being withheld the knowledge of good and evil BEFORE they fell. That's ridiculous and presents an oxymoron because it would be impossible for them to knowingly choose evil before they even know what it means to be evil.

So no, Waterfall, the Bible isn't even well-written for what it claims to be. It's an extremely poorly written fable that doesn't even make any sense at all.

The Bible has Adam and Eve being innocently beguiled by an evil serpent. And then it has Eve confessing to everything and fully cooperating with God even to the point of testifying against the Evil Serpent. Eve should have been exonerated from any wrong-doing right then and there.

So it's a totally failed story. It's not the least bit convincing, IMHO. It's an extremely poorly-thought-out fairy tale. It's not even convincing for what it claims to be happening.

So I could even write a better "Fall from Grace" story than the Bible if I wanted to go that route.

There would be no need for an evil serpent at all. Are you kidding me? If mankind is capable of falling from grace on his own why would an evil serpent be required to deceitfully beguile Eve?

So the Bible isn't even convincing for what it claims to be.

You are to fast for me

I have to read and think first

Now I will read this and think about it...