Belief a CHOICE?

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rstrats
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Belief a CHOICE?

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Post by rstrats »

A number of folks on these boards are saying or at least implying that they can consciously CHOOSE to believe things. If you are one of them perhaps one of you can help me. I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that. If you think that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to say, “OK, at this moment I have a lack of belief that ‘x’ exists or is true, but I CHOOSE to believe that ‘x’ exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that ‘x’ exists or is true?

Maybe you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is “a fairy peculiar to Ireland, who appeared in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron.� So, assuming that you don’t already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?

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Post #81

Post by rstrats »

Purple Knight wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:33 pm [Replying to post 79 by rstrats]



If you don't have an emotional investment either way, you can simply choose whether to believe this is a young woman, or a crone. You're free to select either. You will see whichever you believe is there.

Image
Can you consciously choose to believe things?

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Re: Belief a CHOICE?

Post #82

Post by Purple Knight »

rstrats wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:47 am A number of folks on these boards are saying or at least implying that they can consciously CHOOSE to believe things.
Some things. Not everything.
rstrats wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:47 amI have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that.
You probably have to be crazy first and it doesn't include leprechauns. But if you live a life where you know, for a fact, based on indisputable evidence, presented to you constantly, at every turn, that what you see is wrong, you will come to have this ability at a greater degree than most. Most people have this ability but it's restricted to things like the picture. It has to be flat 50/50 ambiguous in the first place and you can't have emotional investment in it, or you'll just see it the way you're invested in.

But even if you can't change a belief, you can know your belief is wrong and fake the correct one.

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Re: Re:

Post #83

Post by Tcg »

rstrats wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:31 am
Purple Knight wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:33 pm [Replying to post 79 by rstrats]

If you don't have an emotional investment either way, you can simply choose whether to believe this is a young woman, or a crone. You're free to select either. You will see whichever you believe is there.

Image
This is neither an old woman nor a young woman. It is an optical illusion. I can't choose to believe it is either an old woman or a young woman because I know for a fact it is neither. I can't choose to believe it is something I know it isn't.

Can you consciously choose to believe things?
I can't.



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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

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Re: Belief a CHOICE?

Post #84

Post by rstrats »

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #83]

Purple Knight,
re: "Some things."

OK, you say that you can consciously choose to believe some things. How about selecting one of those things that you currently believe, i.e., are convinced doesn't exist, but that you could change to the belief that it does exist and while you are ready this do just that? So, now if you've done that, how did you make the instantaneous transition from the one belief to the other one?



re: "You probably have to be crazy first and it doesn't include leprechauns."

To what is "it" referring?



re: "But even if you can't change a belief, you can know your belief is wrong..."

If you know a belief was wrong, then you no longer have the belief - the belief has changed.

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Re: Belief a CHOICE?

Post #85

Post by nobspeople »

rstrats wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:47 am A number of folks on these boards are saying or at least implying that they can consciously CHOOSE to believe things. If you are one of them perhaps one of you can help me. I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that. If you think that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to say, “OK, at this moment I have a lack of belief that ‘x’ exists or is true, but I CHOOSE to believe that ‘x’ exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that ‘x’ exists or is true?

Maybe you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is “a fairy peculiar to Ireland, who appeared in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron.� So, assuming that you don’t already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?
I have a cousin that lies. Lies and lies and lies. Nothing major; things he's said he's said, but didn't; places he says he's visited but hasn't; things he said has been told to him, but hasn't, etc. He's told so many lies, so many times, he believes them. And, frankly, it's hard not to believe him on some of them if you don't know any better.

My former mother-in-laws says she has MS. She doesn't (she does have documentation saying she needs institutionalized, however, and isn't). She's gone through so many doctors until she's found some who prescribe he MS medications without her having it (she's also said her heart valve has exploded but the medics fixed it in the ambulance arthroscopically; her eye ball exploded on the back side of her glasses but it healed itself; that even though she's a Democrat, GW Bush's campaign contacted her when we was running and wanted her to head his campaign - these speak more to her paperwork for institutionalization IMO). She fervently believes her stories.

For me, things I believe have been shown to me to be truer than not. And, I'm not opposed to changing my belief if data is shown saying different or completely otherwise.

For me, my cousin and former m-n-law, it seems that repetition is the key, as is the want.

If you want to believe unicorns live on Mars and vacation on Uranus, while that may take time to convince yourself of, it's possible. The human mind is capable of great things - don't underestimate it!
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Belief a CHOICE?

Post #86

Post by rstrats »

[Replying to nobspeople in post #86]

nobspeople,
re: "If you want to believe unicorns live on Mars and vacation on Uranus, while that may take time to convince yourself of..."

But how do you know when it's time to convince yourself [i.e., believe]? What would be the indicator that would allow you to say - OK, it's been enough time, and while I still don't believe that unicorns live on Mars and vacation on Uranus, I'm going to believe that they do, and poof, I now believe that they do?

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