"Nothing can be known, not even this"

[Haven]

Nothing can be known, not even this!

In 159 BCE, ancient Greek skeptical philosopher Carneades made this statement in an attempt to refute the possibility of human beings having knowledge of anything, with knowledge defined as "belief that precludes the possibility of error." Carneades believed claiming knowledge of any sort was dogmatic.

For the skeptic, certitude of anything (even this statement) is impossible for humans to obtain. Instead, skeptics believe that humans can only assign degrees of probability to any proposition, granting higher probabilities to seemingly plausible propositions and granting lower probabilities to seemingly implausible propositions.

The principles behind skepticism are the fallibility of the human brain and the uncertain nature of reality. Science has demonstrated that the brain is capable of misinterpreting phenomena, creating hallucinations, and thinking irrationally.
Additionally, we do not even know what reality is: for all we know, we could be living in a computer simulation in which everything we can detect -- matter, energy, and other minds -- are all constructed from lines of computer code. Solipsism, the idea that nothing except one's own minds exists, could be true: after all, you could be a brain in a vat hooked up to a machine feeding you stimuli that causes your brain to react as if it were experiencing reality.

Skepticism appears the only truly rational response in the case of these considerations.

Debate question: is knowledge possible? Can anything be known with certitude? If so, how?

[Purple Knight]

You have me until the morality part. Unless, you're saying humans know what morality is by definition? Then maybe. But what some say is moral others don't many times. And what's moral today may not be in 20 years, just like what was more 200 years ago isn't today.

Still, we define our moral systems like we define our math.

2 + 1 = 3 because we define numbers that way. Murder may be wrong simply because it's defined that way. And other moral systems may define it as permissible. And then it's permissible because it's defined that way. At least, that's how it seems to me. It seems we define our morality like we define our maths.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #71]

Still, we define our moral systems like we define our math.

LOL no, we don't.
1+1=2 is true no matter who you are, where you are, what's happening around you, etc. Morality isn't like that. Looking around through history shows this to be true.
But if this is morality for you, then that's your morality, as frightening as it may be.

[2ndRateMind]

Nothing can be known, not even this!

If it cannot be known that nothing is known, that implies that something can be known.

But rather than logic chopping I prefer an evolutionary approach to epistemological sense data. We evolved senses to inform us about the world, in particular to avoid predators and find prey and mates. Clearly these senses are reasonably accurate, or humanity would not have survived thus far.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Tcg]

If it cannot be known that nothing is known, that implies that something can be known.

So, are you claiming that something can be known? If so, what is it?


Tcg

[2ndRateMind]

If it cannot be known that nothing is known, that implies that something can be known.

So, are you claiming that something can be known? If so, what is it?


Tcg

Cogito ergo sum. I think, therefore I am. But I would go much further than Descartes, as I suggested about evolution and sense data.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[2ndRateMind]

Nothing can be known, not even this!

If it cannot be known that nothing is known, that implies that something can be known.

But rather than logic chopping I prefer an evolutionary approach to epistemological sense data. We evolved senses to inform us about the world, in particular to avoid predators and find prey and mates. Clearly these senses are reasonably accurate, or humanity would not have survived thus far.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Tcg]

If it cannot be known that nothing is known, that implies that something can be known.

So, are you claiming that something can be known? If so, what is it?


Tcg

Cogito ergo sum. I think, therefore I am. But I would go much further than Descartes, as I suggested about evolution and sense data.

Best wishes, 2RM.

How do you know it is you doing the thinking?


Tcg

[2ndRateMind]

If it cannot be known that nothing is known, that implies that something can be known.

So, are you claiming that something can be known? If so, what is it?


Tcg

Cogito ergo sum. I think, therefore I am. But I would go much further than Descartes, as I suggested about evolution and sense data.

Best wishes, 2RM.

How do you know it is you doing the thinking?


Tcg

Because I can entertain the possibility that it isn't.

Best wishes, 2RM

[Tcg]

If it cannot be known that nothing is known, that implies that something can be known.

So, are you claiming that something can be known? If so, what is it?


Tcg

Cogito ergo sum. I think, therefore I am. But I would go much further than Descartes, as I suggested about evolution and sense data.

Best wishes, 2RM.

How do you know it is you doing the thinking?


Tcg

Because I can entertain the possibility that it isn't.

Best wishes, 2RM

How does that establish that it is you doing the thinking?


Tcg

[2ndRateMind]

If it cannot be known that nothing is known, that implies that something can be known.

So, are you claiming that something can be known? If so, what is it?


Tcg

Cogito ergo sum. I think, therefore I am. But I would go much further than Descartes, as I suggested about evolution and sense data.

Best wishes, 2RM.

How do you know it is you doing the thinking?


Tcg

Because I can entertain the possibility that it isn't.

Best wishes, 2RM

How does that establish that it is you doing the thinking?


Tcg

Because we humans have a recursive consciousness; not only can we think, we can think about our thinking and assess it for quality. Even if my thoughts are not my own (and I allow for input by God and Satan) my thoughts about my thoughts must be.

Best wishes, 2RM.