An argument for analysis (about sex)

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Johannes
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An argument for analysis (about sex)

Post #1

Post by Johannes »

One of my students discussed the following argument about sex with me. It is not my argument, and I don't know if my student was committed to it or only trying it out. I submit it to the philosophy forum because I'm interested to know whether any, some, most, or all of you think it is a sound argument, or even merely a valid one, and why.
It goes:


S1. Sex feels really good.
S2. Whatever feels really good is really good.
S3. Therefore, sex is really good.


Is it valid?
Is S1 true or false?
Is S2 true or false?

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Re: An argument for analysis (about sex)

Post #11

Post by Darias »

Johannes wrote:One of my students discussed the following argument about sex with me. It is not my argument, and I don't know if my student was committed to it or only trying it out. I submit it to the philosophy forum because I'm interested to know whether any, some, most, or all of you think it is a sound argument, or even merely a valid one, and why.
It goes:


S1. Sex feels really good.
S2. Whatever feels really good is really good.
S3. Therefore, sex is really good.


Is it valid?
Is S1 true or false?
Is S2 true or false?
This argument could be rewritten to say that: ∵ All sex feels good. ∵ All that feels good is good. ∴ All sex is good.

This syllogism has a valid structure.

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However, the premises are not valid.

S1 is untrue, as intercourse for many people can be both painful and traumatic, due to rape, trauma, or biology. Therefore, even if we are to assume that "sex" in this instance excludes all intercourse that is not voluntary and consensual, we cannot logically conclude that all sex feels good, as there is evidence against this. As for Goat's point, I'm not sure if masochism is relevant here because pain for them is pleasurable.

S2 contains an implicit appeal to nature as well as an explicit appeal to consequences. S2 is therefore invalid. S2 does not appear to be falsifiable through evidence but can be dismissed with reason.

S3 is obviously unfounded. I have no valid reason to accept the conclusion of course; but I cannot say it is untrue because it is derived from fallacious reasoning, as that would be ad logicam on my part.

However, none of this so far seems to address the matter at hand. The student wishes to justify sex with you.

The only logically valid type of sex, when it comes to ethics, is that which is consensual and voluntary. Any attempt to justify, say rape for example, would inevitably involve special pleading, which is invalid. Objective ethics, as with the scientific method and mathematics, must rest on consistency. Any sex that does occur must be preferable for all parties involved, otherwise an unjustified double standard is created.

If your student is of an age that indicates their capacity for consent and you are not coercing them with the promise of good grades or the threat of bad ones, and if you both wish for this to happen, then I cannot ethically condemn you for your actions. Now, such behavior might violate any contract you signed as a teacher, which would most likely result in your termination for reasons I mentioned.

Whatever is voluntary cannot be morally condemned, but that does not mean you can't question whether or not those things are healthy or in your best interests. Smoking isn't immoral but it is demonstrably toxic; and bdsm isn't immoral but it may very well come from a place of trauma.

If you are significantly older than your student, I would question whether or not he or she has healthy motives -- as this is their idea not yours.

If you are tempted by their offer, joke or not, just be aware of any present positive obligations you have created for yourself, such as becoming a fiance, spouse, or parent.



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Re: An argument for analysis (about sex)

Post #12

Post by Talishi »

Johannes wrote: S1. Sex feels really good.
S2. Whatever feels really good is really good.
S3. Therefore, sex is really good.
Sex is a misdemeanor.

The more I miss, the meaner I get.
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Re: An argument for analysis (about sex)

Post #13

Post by Miles »

Johannes wrote: One of my students discussed the following argument about sex with me. It is not my argument, and I don't know if my student was committed to it or only trying it out. I submit it to the philosophy forum because I'm interested to know whether any, some, most, or all of you think it is a sound argument, or even merely a valid one, and why.
It goes:


S1. Sex feels really good.
S2. Whatever feels really good is really good.
S3. Therefore, sex is really good.


Is it valid?
It's invalid.

Put in syllogistic terms

M = sex
P = feels really good
S = is really good

All M are P
All P is S
------------
All M is S

This is invalid because M, the subject of the major premise, can never be the subject of the conclusion. The only term that may take that position is S. So valid conclusions will always take the form of
All S . . . .
No S . . . .
Some S . . .

The most that could be said of

S1. Sex feels really good.
S2. Whatever feels really good is really good.
is
C Some things that are really good are sex

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Re: An argument for analysis (about sex)

Post #14

Post by Bust Nak »

[Replying to post 12 by Miles]

Unless I am suffering from a "brain fart," what you said there is false.

All M are P
All P is S

Does logically imply

All M is S

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Re: An argument for analysis (about sex)

Post #15

Post by help3434 »

[Replying to post 13 by Bust Nak]

You are right, Miles was wrong. Of course even valid arguments are only as sound as their premises.

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Post #16

Post by bluethread »

2 is a hedonistic tenet. So, for the absolute hedonist it is valid. For all others, not necessarily so,

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Re: An argument for analysis (about sex)

Post #17

Post by wiploc »

Johannes wrote: S1. Sex feels really good.
S2. Whatever feels really good is really good.
S3. Therefore, sex is really good.


Is it valid?
Is S1 true or false?
Is S2 true or false?
It is valid.

It's hard to call it sound when we can think of so many exceptions to the premises, but we can call it a strong rule of thumb. That is, things that feel really good tend to be really good.

This "rule" is pretty much how we get thru the day. "When I'm hungry, I eat, because it generally feels good to eat when I'm hungry." "I won't hit myself with that hammer, because that would not feel good."

Exceptions generally have to do with delaying gratification in order to get more gratification, or with making a personal sacrifice for the benefit of the group. "You should brush your teeth even though you don't like doing so. One day you'll thank me." "Yes, you could benefit by cheating on your taxes, but what if everybody did that?"

Sex does generally feel good. This is enough to create a presumption that sex is good. If people don't want you to have sex, they need to come up with a way of overcoming that presumption.

There are many situations in which the presumption will be overcome. "I won't have sex with you because your wife is my best friend, and--in the long run--that wouldn't feel good at all." But it's still fair to say that sex is generally good and beneficial.

And the reason it is good and beneficial? It feels good. It makes people happy. That's what's good about it.

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Re: An argument for analysis (about sex)

Post #18

Post by ttruscott »

Johannes wrote:S1. Sex feels really good.
S2. Whatever feels really good is really good.
S3. Therefore, sex is really good.


Is it valid?
Is S1 true or false?
Is S2 true or false?
S2 is unproven, and patently false...'what is really bad can feel really good' is the basis for Romans 1:20+ Is it not universal that people repeat bad things because they feel good: lying, cathartic anger, sexual cheating etc.?

Our feelings about things cannot be the base of a universal morality.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: An argument for analysis (about sex)

Post #19

Post by brainfruit »

[Replying to post 2 by Goat]

S2: Whatever feels good is good. That's Hedonism. Present benefit, future detriment.

Good is present benefit, future benefit. Like salad.

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