The Finite Truth of Reality

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Divine Insight
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The Finite Truth of Reality

Post #1

Post by Divine Insight »

Technology has revealed to us something quite profound.

For example, photographs and sounds can be digitized. At first this may not seem very profound. However there's a catch. In both cases photographs and sounds can necessarily be made finite. Not only in size or duration, but also in terms of what is even possible.

Consider the following

A camera that can take a digital picture stores this picture in a collection of bits. The number of bits are fairly large, but quite finite. And because they are finite this means that they can only be arranged in a finite number of patterns. In other words, the number of images that can be recorded by such a camera is finite.

However, these cameras can take a picture of anything that actually exists. At least if the object is visible. This means that everything that can possibly exist in the universe can have it's picture taken. And thus if follows that everything in the universe that is visible is necessarily FINITE in number.

Moreover, it's even necessary that these photographs can actually produce pictures that are not even possible in reality. In other words, they can be digitally manipulated in photoshop or similar software to produce images that aren't even possible in the real world.

This means that everything that exists in the world world is 'finite' in possibility. It's not infinite in possibility.

In fact, the truly strange thing is that every human face (just as an example) already exists as a possible arrangement of pixels in a finite digital form. In other word, every imaginable face already exists as a picture (mathematically speaking). There is no face that the camera could not take a picture of. Therefore the image must exist in potentiality within the digital memory of the camera (yet that memory is FINITE)

So the total number of possible humans is necessarily finite as well.

In fact, the digital memory of these camera must also contain every possible face or expression that you can make. Because this camera can take a picture of you when you are sad, or happy, or sticking out your tongue, etc. Every possible image of your own face from ever possible angle is already taken care of by the the FINITE memory of a digital camera.

I've been focusing on humans and faces here, but actually this also applies to ever possible image that can be captured by a camera (including massive accidents of jumbo jet crashes, or train wrecks, or the aftermath of natural disasters, etc.

EVERYTHING that ever happens or can happen must necessarily be FINITE. It cannot be infinite because all of these thing can be captured by a digital camera that has a finite memory.

The same is true for Sound

A CD can easily record sound. And so we can make this simple by considering only a 5-minute sound track. A 5-minute sound track is recorded digitally. That is a finite number of digits that can only be arranged in a finite number of ways. This means that in any given 5-minute digital recording space any and all possible sounds must be able to be recorded.

Think about this for a second. Not only all the music and songs there were ever written or ever will be written, but also included in with that is every 5-minute sound clip you can imagine including every possible 5-minute conversation between humans in ALL POSSIBLE LANGUAGES (even languages that humans have never even invented!)

Any sounds that can be made can be recorded. Yet the possible configuration of the recording bits is FINITE.

This means that every conversation that has ever taken place already "exists" mathematically in this digital audio memory. And even do conversations that never took place. Yet all of this information must necessarily be FINITE.

It has to be finite, because there is only a finite number of ways to rearrange the recording bits. Yet an audio recorder would necessarily need to be able to record any conversation you could ever possibly have (whether you actually have the conversation or not).

Conclusion

Everything we ever do or say, not only already "exists" as a potential configuration of a finite number of bits, but is necessarily finite in number itself.

Our reality is necessarily FINITE in terms of what's actually possible.

Reality is necessarily finite in this sense. The very existence of digital technology shows us that this is necessarily true.

And ironically this doesn't only include humans, and events on earth. But this must include every possibility of anything in the entire universe. Every imaginable alien that you could imagine taking a picture of, must already exist as a configuration in that FINITE memory space of a digital camera.

And every sound that you can imagine recording (including alien conversations) must necessarily already exist as a configuration of the FINITE memory space of a digital audio recorder.

It's truly amazing when you stop and think about this.

It's almost a form of "Determinism". Not so much in the sense of cause and effect, but rather it's a form of determinism in the sense that reality is determined by a finite configuration of bits.

There is nothing you can do or say that isn't already within the potentiality of a configuration space of a FINITE number of bits.

That's truly interesting I think.
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Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
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Re: The Finite Truth of Reality

Post #61

Post by Infinite One »

Divine Insight wrote: Technology has revealed to us something quite profound.

For example, photographs and sounds can be digitized. At first this may not seem very profound. However there's a catch. In both cases photographs and sounds can necessarily be made finite. Not only in size or duration, but also in terms of what is even possible.

Consider the following

A camera that can take a digital picture stores this picture in a collection of bits. The number of bits are fairly large, but quite finite. And because they are finite this means that they can only be arranged in a finite number of patterns. In other words, the number of images that can be recorded by such a camera is finite.

However, these cameras can take a picture of anything that actually exists. At least if the object is visible. This means that everything that can possibly exist in the universe can have it's picture taken. And thus if follows that everything in the universe that is visible is necessarily FINITE in number.

Moreover, it's even necessary that these photographs can actually produce pictures that are not even possible in reality. In other words, they can be digitally manipulated in photoshop or similar software to produce images that aren't even possible in the real world.

This means that everything that exists in the world world is 'finite' in possibility. It's not infinite in possibility.

In fact, the truly strange thing is that every human face (just as an example) already exists as a possible arrangement of pixels in a finite digital form. In other word, every imaginable face already exists as a picture (mathematically speaking). There is no face that the camera could not take a picture of. Therefore the image must exist in potentiality within the digital memory of the camera (yet that memory is FINITE)

So the total number of possible humans is necessarily finite as well.

In fact, the digital memory of these camera must also contain every possible face or expression that you can make. Because this camera can take a picture of you when you are sad, or happy, or sticking out your tongue, etc. Every possible image of your own face from ever possible angle is already taken care of by the the FINITE memory of a digital camera.

I've been focusing on humans and faces here, but actually this also applies to ever possible image that can be captured by a camera (including massive accidents of jumbo jet crashes, or train wrecks, or the aftermath of natural disasters, etc.

EVERYTHING that ever happens or can happen must necessarily be FINITE. It cannot be infinite because all of these thing can be captured by a digital camera that has a finite memory.

The same is true for Sound

A CD can easily record sound. And so we can make this simple by considering only a 5-minute sound track. A 5-minute sound track is recorded digitally. That is a finite number of digits that can only be arranged in a finite number of ways. This means that in any given 5-minute digital recording space any and all possible sounds must be able to be recorded.

Think about this for a second. Not only all the music and songs there were ever written or ever will be written, but also included in with that is every 5-minute sound clip you can imagine including every possible 5-minute conversation between humans in ALL POSSIBLE LANGUAGES (even languages that humans have never even invented!)

Any sounds that can be made can be recorded. Yet the possible configuration of the recording bits is FINITE.

This means that every conversation that has ever taken place already "exists" mathematically in this digital audio memory. And even do conversations that never took place. Yet all of this information must necessarily be FINITE.

It has to be finite, because there is only a finite number of ways to rearrange the recording bits. Yet an audio recorder would necessarily need to be able to record any conversation you could ever possibly have (whether you actually have the conversation or not).

Conclusion

Everything we ever do or say, not only already "exists" as a potential configuration of a finite number of bits, but is necessarily finite in number itself.

Our reality is necessarily FINITE in terms of what's actually possible.

Reality is necessarily finite in this sense. The very existence of digital technology shows us that this is necessarily true.

And ironically this doesn't only include humans, and events on earth. But this must include every possibility of anything in the entire universe. Every imaginable alien that you could imagine taking a picture of, must already exist as a configuration in that FINITE memory space of a digital camera.

And every sound that you can imagine recording (including alien conversations) must necessarily already exist as a configuration of the FINITE memory space of a digital audio recorder.

It's truly amazing when you stop and think about this.

It's almost a form of "Determinism". Not so much in the sense of cause and effect, but rather it's a form of determinism in the sense that reality is determined by a finite configuration of bits.

There is nothing you can do or say that isn't already within the potentiality of a configuration space of a FINITE number of bits.

That's truly interesting I think.
You're finally learning how God gives us the ability to observe objects one picture at a time but at the speed of light. If we had cameras that could operate at the speed of light, then we would know that light doesn't actually move at all. It's just an illusion like time, space and matter are.

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Post #62

Post by ttruscott »

However, these cameras can take a picture of anything that actually exists.
...except for the 95% of the universe which is dark matter. If 95% of the universe is invisible, why is it impossible to believe in an invisible spiritual part of the universe?
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Post #63

Post by Infinite One »

ttruscott wrote:
However, these cameras can take a picture of anything that actually exists.
...except for the 95% of the universe which is dark matter. If 95% of the universe is invisible, why is it impossible to believe in an invisible spiritual part of the universe?
It's the invisible stuff that makes us believe the universe is big. Once they discover these invisible waves and how they are processed into visible objects by an observer, then they will learn that it doesn't take any space to store those waves where all objects come from.

Think of all the visible objects that computer scientists can store on a chip the size of a pinhead today. This should help you understand how everything we see doesn't require any storage space.

The Big Bang never happened. Whatever we experience with our senses starts out as invisible waves. The visible objects you see in the universe are only illusions.

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Post #64

Post by Excubis »

Infinite One wrote:
ttruscott wrote:
However, these cameras can take a picture of anything that actually exists.
...except for the 95% of the universe which is dark matter. If 95% of the universe is invisible, why is it impossible to believe in an invisible spiritual part of the universe?
It's the invisible stuff that makes us believe the universe is big. Once they discover these invisible waves and how they are processed into visible objects by an observer, then they will learn that it doesn't take any space to store those waves where all objects come from.

Think of all the visible objects that computer scientists can store on a chip the size of a pinhead today. This should help you understand how everything we see doesn't require any storage space.

The Big Bang never happened. Whatever we experience with our senses starts out as invisible waves. The visible objects you see in the universe are only illusions.
So we are in THE MATRIX?

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Post #65

Post by Ancient of Years »

Excubis wrote: [Replying to post 59 by Ancient of Years]
Ancient of Years wrote:
Ancient of Years wrote: What you are seeing in those videos are probably plasmonic Airy beams. An Airy beam is a stream of brief high energy laser pulses of very precise composition. They exploit a unique and rather exotic solution of the Maxwell equations of electromagnetism. The result is a stream of light pulses that will travel in a parabolic arc all by itself without external influence. If the beam travels through an appropriate medium, the medium will become ionized along the path of the beam due to its high energy. The plasma (the ionized material) has a net electric charge and is therefore affected by a magnetic field. A suitably powerful magnet can move the plasma around dragging the laser pulses with it. (The ionized atoms keep the light waves confined by diffraction.) It is like moving a fiber optic cable. You are not ‘bending light’ by hand when you do this, just moving the medium the light is traveling in.

Photons have no magnetic poles and no electric charge. They are not affected by magnetism.
Excubis wrote:This I disagree on, I have preformed this on every visual spectrum using high intensity (neodymium) magnets, while being display on various colored backgrounds. The reason that all spectrum's of light can bend is because of the duality of light. When light is acting/being like a wave function it will react to the magnetic field but as a photon it will not. Yes as you have indicated photons are neutral but all waves are effected by magnetic fields. Yes medium matters but more so the duality of wave/particle characteristics of light. Why does a wave react to a magnetic field because there are of the same base mechanism that is still unknown at this time.
You have performed this experiment yourself? I would love to see the details – laser generator, medium etc. I have not done any serious engineering for a long time now. I need a fix.
Yes I made a home made spectroscope than used a rotating coloured background so as to isolate spectra, I also attached old film paper and got a pic of of straight than curved negative as well. I experimented a few times actually with the movement a of magnets and light sources in order to produce some really interesting designs. I used undeveloped umm ah Polaroid photo paper. I used various forms of light from white, red, orange,blue, HPS, MN, MF (bulbs), and black light(BL), shinning through a slit onto a triple triangular prism, I then used a converging lens from a old telescope ( do not know strength) to compact spectrum into lines. I use a cardboard box 2.5 feet X 2 feet , I found this online and is similar to my design http://www.livescience.com/41548-spectr ... oject.html

Except I used prism instead of CD, yet I am going to build this and see how it works. Next time I go through my storage I will try and remember to grab my Polaroids and scan them. Should do that anyways so I have a digital back up. This was a simple home experiment total cost was $20.. 7 years ago not sure how much prism would be now, but I want to see if this new one will react similar if a coloured background is used to isolate visual of spectra. Sorry guess former post was a little leading when I indicated I isolated spectra but I did just naturally not mechanically.
Very interesting experiment. When I was in high school I tried a number of things from Electronics Illustrated and other places. Then I started college and found out that to do the ‘real’ stuff I needed a bunch of heavy duty math and then years later computer programming. The only ‘home experiment’ I did later on wasmeasuring the speed of light with marshmallows. This was only possible after microwave ovens became popular.
Excubis wrote: Now as per other stuff of interest, I do follow some conventional cosmological physics but not as commonly known 1) black holes are actually self contained Universes 2) Our universe is inside a black hole so in a way I hypothesize there is a multiverse but contend nothing except gravity can interact upon interior yet exterior circumferences grows as more mass builds and begins to spin which drives interior space to split (so to say) or big bang type event to occur, and drives expansion. O Well just a thought not sure I should of but ahh oh well as per yet just a mild hypo. until I learn higher set notation, actually thinking QED will be the key just Feynman diagrams are hard to conceptually understand yet easy to use, damn Feynman.
I could see the universe originating as a white hole, the ultra-dense ‘bottom’ of a black hole that bent space-time inside out, creating a new universe and spewing out the material that then expands. But the universe would not be, or be inside, a black hole.

A single Feynman diagram represents only one possible interaction mapping. Making predictions with QED requires calculating the net result of all possible Feynman diagrams (down to the point of negligible corrections), utilizing the appropriate mathematics (sums of probability amplitudes).

QED explains how photons and electrons interact. That is only a fraction of what an ultimate theory needs to explain. Plus it requires renormalization, a way of sweeping anomalous infinities under the rug. Mathematically speaking the renormalization techniques are flatly illegal. Seems to me that a final theory would not generate these infinities in the first place.
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

William Blake

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Post #66

Post by Excubis »

[Replying to post 65 by Ancient of Years]

I really want to reply but I am having a personal emergency and will be away for awhile. Nice thoughts I only want to touch on why I bought up Friedman Diagrams and it was more about matter energy interaction. I would also say that a infinite's are necessary in a universe based on probabilities rather than certainties. The certainties we experience are a mean between multiple infinite interactions. Since we exist in the middle of infinite we also perceive precision. Okay better stop got RL to take care of. Later

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Re: The Finite Truth of Reality

Post #67

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 1 by Divine Insight]
Divine Insight wrote:

A camera that can take a digital picture stores this picture in a collection of bits. The number of bits are fairly large, but quite finite. And because they are finite this means that they can only be arranged in a finite number of patterns. In other words, the number of images that can be recorded by such a camera is finite.
I'm not convinced.
Divine Insight wrote:However, these cameras can take a picture of anything that actually exists. At least if the object is visible. This means that everything that can possibly exist in the universe can have it's picture taken. And thus if follows that everything in the universe that is visible is necessarily FINITE in number.
You would have to demonstrate that there are finite numbers of things that are visible. Good luck with counting them.
Divine Insight wrote:Moreover, it's even necessary that these photographs can actually produce pictures that are not even possible in reality. In other words, they can be digitally manipulated in photoshop or similar software to produce images that aren't even possible in the real world.
You would have to demonstrate that ONE single picture can't have infinite variations in Photoshop. Good luck proving that.
Divine Insight wrote:This means that everything that exists in the world world is 'finite' in possibility. It's not infinite in possibility.
This conclusion needs some proof.
Divine Insight wrote:In fact, the truly strange thing is that every human face (just as an example) already exists as a possible arrangement of pixels in a finite digital form. In other word, every imaginable face already exists as a picture (mathematically speaking). There is no face that the camera could not take a picture of. Therefore the image must exist in potentiality within the digital memory of the camera (yet that memory is FINITE)
You want us to believe that what is merely POSSIBLE is ACTUAL. But that's not the case as there might be something that is possible that isn't actual yet, or will never be actual. I think of fantasies, oh... fairies and gods might be POSSIBLE, but we have no reason at all to think that they are ACTUAL.

We can make up infinite things that aren't actual.
Divine Insight wrote:So the total number of possible humans is necessarily finite as well.
Not at all convincing, sorry.
Divine Insight wrote:In fact, the digital memory of these camera must also contain every possible face or expression that you can make. Because this camera can take a picture of you when you are sad, or happy, or sticking out your tongue, etc. Every possible image of your own face from ever possible angle is already taken care of by the the FINITE memory of a digital camera.
We have no reason to believe that a FINITE memory can hold an infinite series of possible pictures no matter what the subject is.
Divine Insight wrote:EVERYTHING that ever happens or can happen must necessarily be FINITE. It cannot be infinite because all of these thing can be captured by a digital camera that has a finite memory.
I'm sorry, but I missed the part that you proved where a finite memory can hold an infinite set.
Divine Insight wrote:Any sounds that can be made can be recorded. Yet the possible configuration of the recording bits is FINITE.
The recording of the sound is not the sound itself.
Divine Insight wrote:Everything we ever do or say, not only already "exists" as a potential configuration of a finite number of bits, but is necessarily finite in number itself.

Our reality is necessarily FINITE in terms of what's actually possible.
You mistake the digital representation of an object for the object itself, that's a huge mistake.

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