Chimps and Bonobos

[Mr.Badham]

I have to admit, I'm more than just a little disappointed with my cousins. If we're so closely related, why aren't they doing better? They don't seem very smart at all. Sure they can use a blade of grass to stick in an ant hole, but I just cracked a can of beer.

Question for debate; What's the real difference between us and Chimps and Bonobos?

[SailingCyclops]

I have to admit, I'm more than just a little disappointed with my cousins. If we're so closely related, why aren't they doing better? They don't seem very smart at all.

Not too smart? Compared to what?
The primates you mention do not destroy their environment, do not kill for fun or sport, they do not abuse, murder or torture each other (or members of other species for that matter). They do not commit genocide, make wars, pillage, or exterminate other species.

Those primates do not worship mythological gods, they do not behead, burn, execute or torture in the name of their gods…. in short, their intelligence seems to be superior to our’s in many real-world respects.

Perhaps we need to re-evaluate what "Intelligence" is!

Question for debate; What's the real difference between us and Chimps and Bonobos?

BIG difference! The Primates are more MORAL, natural, kinder, harmonious, environmental and less violent. They are less destructive, sane would be a fair description. While, we humans are destroying each other as well as the very planet we all live on, IMMORAL and insane would fit us well.

Give me a good animal any day, you can keep the humans!!

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 2 by SailingCyclops]

So is that evidence that we aren't animals?

[Hamsaka]

[Replying to post 2 by SailingCyclops]

So is that evidence that we aren't animals?

I think it's more like evidence that our big brains and 'intelligence' make us crazy animals. I agree we are 'set apart' due to the quantum leaps in intelligence, but our brain contains the structures of the lowliest brain-having creatures, and wrapped around these primitive structures are more and more complex 'layers' of brain material.

If an advanced group of aliens stopped by for a visit, and studied us using basic scientific method (observation, measurement, drawing conclusions) they would have to note we humans share all but a couple of chromosomes with a banana, and less than 1% is the difference between humans and the chimps. I frankly don't know what else we could possibly BE but animals.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 4 by Hamsaka]

It's interesting how the belief in evolution and aliens goes together.

If the aliens shared similarities with us or animals you would be forced to conclude they came from Earth.

[SailingCyclops]

[Replying to post 2 by SailingCyclops]
So is that evidence that we aren't animals?

Well, you have a choice: Animal, Mineral, or Vegetable. Most humans I know fall into the Animal catagory. However, some folks I have encountered on these and similar forums, can more accurately be classified as Vegetables due to their severely diminished intellectual capacity. Not to worry though, Vegetables can sometimes lead useful productive lives too.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 6 by SailingCyclops]

Vegetable jokes aside.

So now you have a contradiction.

Man is an animal.
Animals are in harmony with the environment.
Man is not in harmony with the environment.

Therefore Man is not an animal.

[Hamsaka]

[Replying to post 4 by Hamsaka]

It's interesting how the belief in evolution and aliens goes together.

If the aliens shared similarities with us or animals you would be forced to conclude they came from Earth.

It makes sense. Evolution is how life develops, and with modern astronomy technique it's clear there are rocky planets with water out there (about 1200 light years away lol, not that we'll ever visit). The planets and stars in the universe are made of the same stuff, it's not like a rocky exo-planet is made out of different ingredients than the Earth is made of. Humans share the biological components of all other Earthly life, and if exo-planets are like Earth, it follows life will have many similarities to life on Earth and will have gone through it's own evolutionary process.

If aliens share similarities with us or animals, it would be no surprise at all. I would expect there to be significant similarities.

One of the speculations aside from abiogenesis is that very simple primitive life (bacteria, algae) is zipping around the universe on chunks of blown up planet that harbored life. There are several kinds of life presently on Earth that can survive the vacuum of space. Nothing very complicated, but still, that's remarkable. And apparently that's all that is needed, some simple self-replicated 'living' cells doing their thing in a compatible niche for evolution to happen.

[Excubis]

I have to admit, I'm more than just a little disappointed with my cousins. If we're so closely related, why aren't they doing better? They don't seem very smart at all. Sure they can use a blade of grass to stick in an ant hole, but I just cracked a can of beer.

Question for debate; What's the real difference between us and Chimps and Bonobos?

Interesting question one I have pondered quite a bit. Although I may not agree with above statement but do like the question.

First our genetic closeness does not mean we are the same only that we share a common ancestor in a relative recent past. Now many see our genetic closeness for more than it is, this does not mean we are the same species in any way and therefore the differences are apparent. That discovery showed that we humans are connected to other animals and not created independently from but are apart of and not made apart from.

Now as for what makes humans different, well first off it is our brain size, as per yet no other animal found living or dead has a comparable brain size compared to body size. This is the fundamental difference beyond physical appearance between us and primates. It is accepted that our brain size that has brought about the success of human beings, unless we find another animal that has same brain to body ratio will another aspect be thought to be the cause of our success.

Although there are many variables as per success of a organism two of which seem to be more important, adaptability and birthing rates coupled with offspring survive ability. Now this does not necessarily apply to times of cataclysmic events but to overall survive ability. Majority of animals have physical adaptation for survival coalescing in the physical attributes such as teeth, size, ect...

Now some may bring up Neanderthals yet it should be noted homo sapiens brain was larger. Now why is this important, well there are current statistical analysis being done that is showing that all brains have limited amount of connections that can occur at one time and this rate is dependent on brain size. This stems from computer sciences a great deal, the more connections or routes an electrical impulse can do, the better the computer, ie. processing power. Now their is no computer that can do what the human brain can and those that come close are very large indeed(super computers).

The ability of humans to think abstractly to insure survivability, is the fundamental difference. Since there is no other being known on the planet able to exploit the environment as we do, this lends to past and present condition of being apart from nature. Well I for one say no, everything we have is made of, by, and discovered from manipulating nature and therefore is from nature. It is in my view we humans have a bias sense of being better than/different from that has caused this divide in western society from nature but is but a veil of ignorance that is self imposed.

Home sapiens ability to think abstractly to exploit our environment is in my opinion is an inevitability of life and even if humans had never evolved another being would of eventually. That is if environmental conditions are complex enough to bring about life and evolution.

[SailingCyclops]

[Replying to post 7 by Wootah]

You know that is an absurdity. Your logic is terribly flawed. Plug in YOUR definition of animal to see why. Not to hijack the thread --please do not reply to this post!