The Intrinsic Value of Humanity

[Miles]

Is there such a thing?

The reason I ask is that occasionally someone will suggest that to save the human race we should be looking for ways to live on other planets. Of course there aren't any habitable planets in our solar system so the the suggestion isn't at all reasonable. However, is there any reason we should even be thinking of such a thing? If the human race eventually died out what would be the loss? What is so precious about the human race that we should seek to prolong its existence as best we can? Personally, I don't see any, but maybe I'm missing something.

[Paprika]

If the human race eventually died out what would be the loss? What is so precious about the human race that we should seek to prolong its existence as best we can? Personally, I don't see any, but maybe I'm missing something.

Ahh, pure Reason leading once more down the path of nihilism and dyscivic thought.

Well, perhaps you should start with the human closest to you: yourself. What value do you have?

[Divine Insight]

I would think that secularists who believe that the human race is basically a crap shoot of the universe would be the most interested in keeping humanity going for as long as possible. After all, if we came to be by "pure accident" (allowing for the natural process of evolution of course), then in a very real sense we do indeed have "intrinsic value" if only in being a very rare result of what the universe is capable of producing.

Ironically, it's actually those who believe in a spiritual or mystical reality where the preservation of humanity wouldn't be important.

After all if a person believes that some higher God is in charge of our ultimate fate, then why should we try to take anything into our own hands? Many religious people would see that as nothing more than arrogant blaspheme against the "Master Plan of God".

On an entirely different spiritual or mystical note, those who believe in reincarnation wouldn't be very concerned with humanity dying out as a whole either. Based upon their beliefs, they would be reincarnated anyway. Possible even in the form of something far better than a mere mortal human.

So, as far as I can see, the preservation of the Human Species would be far more important to secular atheists than to anyone else.

I tend to actually believe in the mystical view of reincarnation. And I don't see that as being limited to only being reincarnated on planet Earth as a human. So, for me, the infinite preservation of humans as we know them is totally unimportant. Preserving a particular physical incarnation wouldn't be important in any mystical sense.

Having said this, I would contribute to any projects that had the goal of attempting to preserve humanity, because overall that's an optimistic and inspirational project in any case.

After all, life is all about exploration, achievement, and accomplishments. If we cease to dream and pursue dreams then we may as well be dead, because "in spirit" we would already be dead anyway. Moving forward and looking forward to tomorrow is a huge part of life, in spite of the utterly stupid things that Jesus said about taking no thought of the morrow.

In fact, there you go. Jesus was a "spiritualist" and he clearly wasn't very concerned about planning for the future. So it's highly unlikely that Jesus would contribute to any programs that had the goal of preserving humanity far into the future.

[Blastcat]

Sorry, folks, I did that double post thing again.. we might consider a capacity to delete our own posts... just ignore this...

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 1 by Miles]

What is so precious about the human race that we should seek to prolong its existence as best we can? Personally, I don't see any, but maybe I'm missing something.

What's So Precious?
______________________________________

Do you love anybody?
Are they worthy of the love?

Are you loved by anyone?
Are you worthy of theirs?

Human is what you are, don't be afraid.
Once you are gone, you won't matter to yourself.
Now that you are here you matter to some, don't be afraid to matter, because it really matters to THEM.. let them love you.

We all matter to someone, at sometime.
If you are missing something, it might be that you are a bit too busy thinking about love, instead of living it.

We are all ridiculous in our own way, and worthy of love, don't worry.
Just reach out to people.. and tell them that you love them, if you do.

That's all that really matters in the end.
Is that intrinsically good? What does it matter, since it's all we got, so don't be afraid to embrace reality, and give someone a great big hug. It just feels good.

Is it precious?
I think that it is, yes.
Very.

[Divine Insight]

If a God existed would it have "intrinsic value"?

If so, why? What could give a God intrinsic value?

In fact, what gives anything intrinsic value?

What does the concept of "instinct value" even mean?

Isn't the very concept of "value" ultimately a judgement call of a sentient mind?

Is so, then humans have "intrinsic value" simply because they are sentient.

In other words, they are the very entities that consider themselves to be "valuable".

[Miles]

perhaps you should start with the human closest to you: yourself. What value do you have?

I fail to see the relevance.

__________________________________________

I would think that secularists who believe that the human race is basically a crap shoot of the universe would be the most interested in keeping humanity going for as long as possible.

To what end?

After all, if we came to be by "pure accident" (allowing for the natural process of evolution of course), then in a very real sense we do indeed have "intrinsic value" if only in being a very rare result of what the universe is capable of producing.

An intrinsic value to whom or what?

Ironically, it's actually those who believe in a spiritual or mystical reality where the preservation of humanity wouldn't be important.

So, for those outside of a spiritual or mystical reality is there any importance of preserving humanity as long as possible?

After all if a person believes that some higher God is in charge of our ultimate fate, then why should we try to take anything into our own hands? Many religious people would see that as nothing more than arrogant blaspheme against the "Master Plan of God".

Not quite following you here, but wouldn't taking whatever measures possible to prolong humanity be taking its fate into our own hands?

Having said this, I would contribute to any projects that had the goal of attempting to preserve humanity, because overall that's an optimistic and inspirational project in any case.

Are you saying then that the effort to prolong humanity should be done because if fosters optimism and is inspirational?

After all, life is all about exploration, achievement, and accomplishments. If we cease to dream and pursue dreams then we may as well be dead, because "in spirit" we would already be dead anyway. Moving forward and looking forward to tomorrow is a huge part of life, in spite of the utterly stupid things that Jesus said about taking no thought of the morrow.

For the few. For the vast majority life is all about survival.

---------------------------

Isn't the very concept of "value" ultimately a judgement call of a sentient mind?

Is so, then humans have "intrinsic value" simply because they are sentient.

In other words, they are the very entities that consider themselves to be "valuable".

Sorry, but your argument isn't valid. AND, I'm talking about humanity (the human race), not "entities."

_________________________________________

What's So Precious?

Do you love anybody?
Are they worthy of the love?

Are you loved by anyone?
Are you worthy of theirs?

Human is what you are, don't be afraid.
Once you are gone, you won't matter to yourself.
Now that you are here you matter to some, don't be afraid to matter, because it really matters to THEM.. let them love you.

We all matter to someone, at sometime.
If you are missing something, it might be that you are a bit too busy thinking about love, instead of living it.

We are all ridiculous in our own way, and worthy of love, don't worry.
Just reach out to people.. and tell them that you love them, if you do.

That's all that really matters in the end.
Is that intrinsically good? What does it matter, since it's all we got, so don't be afraid to embrace reality, and give someone a great big hug. It just feels good.

Is it precious?
I think that it is, yes.
Very.

Nice; However, the focus here isn't the individual, but humanity.

[Hamsaka]

Is there such a thing?

The reason I ask is that occasionally someone will suggest that to save the human race we should be looking for ways to live on other planets. Of course there aren't any habitable planets in our solar system so the the suggestion isn't at all reasonable. However, is there any reason we should even be thinking of such a thing? If the human race eventually died out what would be the loss? What is so precious about the human race that we should seek to prolong its existence as best we can? Personally, I don't see any, but maybe I'm missing something.

I'd put money on you 'missing something' but that's a personal opinion. I feel quite fond of humanity in general, and find our instinctive desire to live and survive worthy of long term planning. Although we don't know for sure, it appears that living organisms may be rare in the universe; certainly, sentient and intelligent life must be all the more rare and worthy of promotion.

If the human race died out, what would be the loss? I don't know, as there wouldn't be any sentient-enough creatures to even miss us on Earth. Considering all the resources we demand and use, it might be better for them temporarily, until some other creature takes over our niche.

We may not be valuable to the universe, but we are valuable to each other. For me, that's enough to get along with. We mean everything to each other, literally. This has become apparent moreso the older I get.

The Christian religion claims humans have a special value above all other creatures. Without some reason or evidence, I see no reason to believe it is true. Where is this God who ostensibly gave it to us? It is an idea with the potential for trouble, and the evidence of that is traditional lack of empathy or concern for the creatures we share the planet with, not to mention the deleterious impact we've had on environments. We'll always be 'most valuable' in our own eyes, which I believe is natural and correct. I see current efforts for animal advocacy -- however wacky and inappropriate it appears, sometimes -- as attempting a much needed balance. Now to get the fringe-y animal/plant activists to stop projecting all their human nonsense on nonhuman creatures, and see them for what they are (whatever that is) . . .

It appears that many folks, when confronted with no god to be had, go through an important personal process, and it does NOT end with nihilism. It might, but it is far from inevitable.

Ironically the Christian religion both elevates and diminishes the value of the human being. "Made in the image of God" and having dominion over the plants and animals of the Earth has to share space with the opposite Christian sensibility -- that we are pathetically sinful and bad and need 'saving' from ourselves. That never made sense to me. The Christian God put such a sorry excuse for a creature in dominion over the rest of his creation? What was he thinking?

I find the Christian doctrines regarding human value (and lack thereof) to be nihilistic. Religious people protesting 'global warming' may claim their God's special designation, but what do you call their refusal to acknowledge environmental problems? I call that nihilistic. 40% of Americans believe Jesus will return in the next 40 years, so who cares about the future of humanity, much less God's creation? When I hear a Christian theist sneer at the 'nihilism' of atheism or secular humanism I have a hard time believing they don't see their own active nihilism, explicit in their own religious doctrines.

[Blastcat]

Nice; However, the focus here isn't the individual, but humanity.

Yes, that's right.. you go from the particular to the general, if you are worthy, if your loved ones, and so on. Now if we were to use our imaginations... All people, all of humanity are the same.

You aren't humanity, you are one individual, but humanity is composed of human individuals who are also just as worthy as you are.

[Paprika]

perhaps you should start with the human closest to you: yourself. What value do you have?

I fail to see the relevance.

Humanity is, amongst other things, a collection of individuals. What value do you have?