Respect, society, and self-interest

[agnosticatheist]

People talk about how our society is going downhill. They talk about how people do not have respect for those in authority (teachers, police officers, etc).

Now, is this a question of moral erosion, or control over actions and making sure we act in self-interest?

I may not have an ounce of respect for a teacher, but im not going to be disrespectful to the point that it affects my reputation, affects how the teacher grades subjective material, etc.

I might want to be disrespectful, but it wouldnt be in my interest to do so.

Why should we be respectful to someone we dont want to be?

Is it because it's the right thing to do? If it's the right thing to do, why should I do the right thing?

Or, is it because it could be self-damaging to be disrespectful?

[Miles]

Just because "people talk about how our society is going downhill" doesn't mean it is. I've found that few people ever take the time or are capable of, putting current conditions in historical perspective. Such generalizations deserve to be ignored.

[agnosticatheist]

Just because "people talk about how our society is going downhill" doesn't mean it is. I've found that few people ever take the time or are capable of, putting current conditions in historical perspective. Such generalizations deserve to be ignored.

I agree 100%. More the issue I was dealing with is why be respectful when you dont want to be?

[bluethread]

Just because "people talk about how our society is going downhill" doesn't mean it is. I've found that few people ever take the time or are capable of, putting current conditions in historical perspective. Such generalizations deserve to be ignored.

When egalitarians remove subjectivity that they do not like along with objectivity that does not further their agenda, there is no reason to respect anything but the egalitarian agenda, which is really nothing more than the agenda of those who consider themselves to be "more equal than others".

[Excubis]

[Replying to post 2 by Miles]

Well you can actually make an argument for, rates of incarceration in free developed countries or western capital societies are today some of the highest in the world. Division of economic class has grown and is growing, education, literacy, and so on and so on are on a downward trend. I am of course talking about U.S.A. and Canada.

These indicators or stressors on a society generally show a undertone of angst and in the historical record of civilization usually is a precursor of drastic change. Good or bad would be subjective I agree but overall one can interpret such as a disintegration of society but just maybe a transitional phase into a new paradigm. Time and hindsight will be the only truth for either to be true.

[jgh7]

Being respectful in a sense is about treating people the way you would want to be treated. It's a moral thing.

Typically, the urge to be disrespectful comes when we disagree or don't like something about someone.

What if the table was turned and someone disagreed with us or didn't like us for a particular reason?

In my case, I would most prefer if that person voiced their disagreement towards me in a way that was not disrespectful. They can tell me why they don't like or agree with something about me without actually going out of their way to purposely insult me.

It's a fine line, but I believe it's possible to voice your disagreements or dislikes in a professional manner to others while avoiding being disrespectful. People are still bound to be offended much of the time because we're sensitive. So sometimes it may be best just to ignore them if it doesn't affect you that much.

Being disrespectful in most cases is both morally wrong and not in your best interest.

[agnosticatheist]

[Replying to post 6 by jgh7]

As far as the golden rule goes, if someone doesnt like me, oh well. Dont force yourself to be nice to me.

If being respectful is the morally right thing to do, why should I do the morally right thing? Doesnt it just reduce down to self-interest? (i.e. its in my self-interest to act respectfully)

[jgh7]

[Replying to post 7 by agnosticatheist]

Ultimately yes. It is most likely in your self-interest to be respectful rather than disrespectful.

If you don't care about morality and how your actions affect others, than any moral arguments I make towards being respectful don't apply to you. They hold no weight for you.

The only thing left that holds weight is your own self-interest.

Edit: In regards to self-interest however, psychologically you might find your mind to change if you choose to be openly disrespectful. If you are often disrespectful to others because you feel like it and view it to not affect your self-interest, then I think you may find yourself being very defensive, hostile, and untrustworthy towards others. You ultimately put them on the same level that you put yourself. If you accept and expect yourself to be disrespectful in many situations, you may expect others to be that way to you and will therefore view them more negatively and with more hostility, if that makes any sense.

It's still a self-interest issue, but for the sake of your own peace of mind, I think being respectful will give you more peace and comfort. A lot of us want to be disrespectful to vent off anger, but you can still find ways to assertively voice disagreement without resorting to insults and the like that are meant to solely put someone down and make them feel bad.

[agnosticatheist]

[Replying to post 7 by agnosticatheist]

Ultimately yes. It is most likely in your self-interest to be respectful rather than disrespectful.

If you don't care about morality and how your actions affect others, than any moral arguments I make towards being respectful don't apply to you. They hold no weight for you.

The only thing left that holds weight is your own self-interest.

Edit: In regards to self-interest however, psychologically you might find your mind to change if you choose to be openly disrespectful. If you are often disrespectful to others because you feel like it and view it to not affect your self-interest, then I think you may find yourself being very defensive, hostile, and untrustworthy towards others. You ultimately put them on the same level that you put yourself. If you accept and expect yourself to be disrespectful in many situations, you may expect others to be that way to you and will therefore view them more negatively and with more hostility, if that makes any sense.

It's still a self-interest issue, but for the sake of your own peace of mind, I think being respectful will give you more peace and comfort. A lot of us want to be disrespectful to vent off anger, but you can still find ways to assertively voice disagreement without resorting to insults and the like that are meant to solely put someone down and make them feel bad.

I pretty much agree with you here. I generally am respectful to people, even when I dont want to be, but I think I only do it because its in my self-interest.

I dont think I was trying to argue that because respect is only a matter of self-interest, I can then start being disrespectful. Why would I do that? It wouldnt be in my self-interest. Lol

[Neatras]

When egalitarians remove subjectivity that they do not like along with objectivity that does not further their agenda, there is no reason to respect anything but the egalitarian agenda, which is really nothing more than the agenda of those who consider themselves to be "more equal than others".

Political agendas inevitably move toward collectivism, and the result is a dissolution of individualism, which is crucial for egalitarianism to be demonstrated rather than enforced.

I've had to struggle to figure out how I want to treat others, and how I want to be treated... But my father pushed hard for me to accept a very emphatic point: I cannot change someone's mind, and I cannot decide someone's behavior. Nor can I have power over their beliefs, feelings, or their accountability. This lack of power is in no way a limitation, it is merely a trait that exists among all individuals. And because of that, I've turned to media, discussions, etc. in order to determine what it means for me to be unable to compel others to understand me, despite my belief that true understanding between people can be the greatest force for change we can employ.

The truth is, I have to do what I can to be understood, and accept my losses when I fail to convey my feelings. But if I consider myself in a frame of reference where I accept the right of my peers to make decisions based on their perception of me, then the implications are clear.

I am neither inferior nor superior to any other person. This ran contrary to how I felt in my teens, where I believed I was largely inferior to most humans, while still superior to most violent criminals. The hardest portion of my life came through coming to terms with deciding that no matter how low a person can get, nor how high I may become, I will never demonstrate a difference in worth between myself and someone else, because I have no power over others' hearts. And that's fine by me.

In that way, I'm an egalitarian because I refuse to see others as inferior, and yet reject the notion that I am inferior as well. So my ability to respect or disrespect others comes from my desire to see my feelings conveyed in the most peaceful way, as equals, so no misinterpretation or misrepresentation of my feelings develops. If others truly understand me, then whether they respect me or not, they will be interacting with me, and not some facsimile of me based on their limited knowledge.

Respect should come from integrity. Disrespect should come from dishonesty, because it conveys an unhelpful idealized version of someone, and makes for more misunderstandings and conflicts. Actions which harm others should be disrespected because they limit the autonomy and expression o