Pure Secular Materialism Versus Christianity?

[Divine Insight]

Another thread entitled "Is Atheism worth a tinker's dam?" got me to thinking about the value of a worldview of Pure Secular Materialism. Or a Naturalistic worldview that doesn't imagine invisible Gods, or unproven eternal souls, etc.

Many religious people argue that if we just die when we die then life is worthless and meaningless. So for them, the idea of having their ego perpetuated for all of eternity appears to be the only thing of value to them. Yet ironically, they preach of a far greater love. That we are to love others more than we love ourselves. Of course Jesus never really taught this at all. To the contrary Jesus taught that people are to love others as they love themselves. So even Jesus never placed anyone higher than the personal ego.

But what if reality is a pure secular materialistic world? What if when our ego dies, it dies and that's that. Does this make life worthless just because our personal selfish egos won't be perpetuated for all of eternity?

Should we then all just commit suicide and give up on life entirely?

Wouldn't that be the epitome of selfishness?

To claim that life is worthless and meaningless if our egos aren't going to be resurrected after death and preserved for all of eternity is actually the most selfish worldview possible.

Pure Secular Materialism, on the other hand, requires a totally selfless view of the world, everything we do should not be for our ego, but for the perpetuation of mankind in general. And not even just mankind but for all living creatures.

Pure Secular Materialism can actually be a worldview that has the highest morality possible. A genuine love of life and of others, with total selflessness in terms of worrying about having our own personal egos perpetuated for eternity.

It would seem to me that a worldview of Pure Secular Materialism is actually on higher moral ground than a religion like Christianity that focuses entirely on the salvation of the ego leading to an imagined eternal life of the ego.

A worldview of Pure Secular Materialism requires that we focus on the perpetuation of life in general, and not on the perpetuation of our own personal ego.

Questions for debate or consideration:

How is Pure Secular Materialism not worth a Tinker's Dam to anyone who isn't totally absorbed with the preservation of their own ego?

How can Christianity claim to be about higher moral values when all it amounts to is an obsession with the dream of having ones ego preserved for eternity?

[puddleglum]

[Replying to post 1 by Divine Insight]

How can Christianity claim to be about higher moral values when all it amounts to is an obsession with the dream of having ones ego preserved for eternity?

True Christianity is no about having one's ego preserved but about honoring God. Have you ever read Surprised by Joy, the autobiography of C. S. Lewis? He was once an atheist and his conversion to Christianity took place in two steps. He was first converted simply to theism, the belief that there was a God. He had no idea whether there was a future life awaiting him but he believed that God was worthy of worship simply because he existed. It was only later that he became a Christian and had any assurance that he had eternal life.

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to post 1 by Divine Insight]

. . . claim that life is worthless and meaningless if our egos aren't going to be resurrected after death and preserved for all of eternity is actually the most selfish worldview possible.

Pure Secular Materialism, on the other hand, requires a totally selfless view of the world, everything we do should not be for our ego, but for the perpetuation of mankind in general. And not even just mankind but for all living creatures.

Pure Secular Materialism can actually be a worldview that has the highest morality possible. A genuine love of life and of others, with total selflessness in terms of worrying about having our own personal egos perpetuated for eternity.

It would seem to me that a worldview of Pure Secular Materialism is actually on higher moral ground than a religion like Christianity that focuses entirely on the salvation of the ego leading to an imagined eternal life of the ego.

A worldview of Pure Secular Materialism requires that we focus on the perpetuation of life in general, and not on the perpetuation of our own personal ego.

RIGHT-ON YOU ARE! It is time for all those courageous enough to call religion just a bunch of super cults to take the high moral ground back from the egotists and know-nothings. Ignorance may be bliss but the perpetuation of it IS TRULY SINFUL !!

I just read an article that quoted a June 2015 Gallup poll that found 40% of respondents would ". . . flatly refuse to vote for an atheist candidate, . . . " That is an insult to the intelligence of this nation (or are people dumber than I thought?). Perhaps a symptom of this revelation is the moral quality of our elected representatives -- how many atheists can match mouthful by mouthful the deceit that pours forth from the vote grubbing politician?

The Gallup Poll went on to say that atheists "lack basic moral values." Well, I say that if one gives up all the blather issuing from many clergy and politicians -- THAT IS A POSITION OF HONESTY !! To trade one's own persona for unproven promises of a wishful, eternal bliss -- THAT IS NOT A SIN, BUT IS HONESTY !! DOES HONESTY COUNT FOR ANYTHING ANYMORE?

In the same magazine (CHURCH & STATE) The Rev. Timothy Dwight, President of Yale University, tried to blackball Thomas Jefferson's bid for the presidency (July 4, 1798 sermon to his congregation) stating "that a Jefferson victory would destroy the moral fiber of the new nation because the Founding Father . . . did not believe in God. The Bible would be cast into a bon fire, . . ." The article is entitled "The Last Political Taboo" and can be found Vol. 69, No 2 (latest issue). Another reason not to send one's child to Yale!

I'm sorry if I offend anyone in my posts but I get upset at the idiocy out there. It peeves me that it has taken so long for rational thinking to gain a foothold (our politicians and clergy are going to make sure that it doesn't).'

[Bust Nak]

Pure Secular Materialism, on the other hand, requires a totally selfless view of the world, everything we do should not be for our ego, but...

To be fair, pure secular materialism doesn't say anything about should's, ought's or code of conducts.

[Divine Insight]

Pure Secular Materialism, on the other hand, requires a totally selfless view of the world, everything we do should not be for our ego, but...

To be fair, pure secular materialism doesn't say anything about should's, ought's or code of conducts.

I guess that's up to the philosopher who is considering this worldview.

I do agree that even a worldview of pure secular materialism isn't going have much influence on someone who is bent on being a selfish egotist. However, most philosophers who consider this worldview (which is actually basically the same world view of pantheism) recognize that we're all part of the whole.

It would seem to me that the ones who insist on being selfish egotists in this worldview haven't truly grasped the significance of this worldview.

[Peds nurse]

Another thread entitled "Is Atheism worth a tinker's dam?" got me to thinking about the value of a worldview of Pure Secular Materialism. Or a Naturalistic worldview that doesn't imagine invisible Gods, or unproven eternal souls, etc.

Many religious people argue that if we just die when we die then life is worthless and meaningless. So for them, the idea of having their ego perpetuated for all of eternity appears to be the only thing of value to them. Yet ironically, they preach of a far greater love. That we are to love others more than we love ourselves. Of course Jesus never really taught this at all. To the contrary Jesus taught that people are to love others as they love themselves. So even Jesus never placed anyone higher than the personal ego.

He did say this, in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. What is forgotten is the first part of that, which says to love God first, and to love people as we love ourselves. It doesn't say to love ourselves and then people, it puts the importance equally on both.

But what if reality is a pure secular materialistic world? What if when our ego dies, it dies and that's that. Does this make life worthless just because our personal selfish egos won't be perpetuated for all of eternity?

Should we then all just commit suicide and give up on life entirely?

Wouldn't that be the epitome of selfishness?

The problem that I see, is that the statements above indicate that we are fretful because our ego's will cease to exist if there isn't a God. That isn't the case for most Christians. We don't really care about our ego's because we have died to self long before. We seek to be in the presence of God, which has nothing to do with death being the end product, the final curtain. It has EVERYTHING to do with being in His presence. It is about Him.

To claim that life is worthless and meaningless if our egos aren't going to be resurrected after death and preserved for all of eternity is actually the most selfish worldview possible.

Well, I would agree if that were the case...

Pure Secular Materialism, on the other hand, requires a totally selfless view of the world, everything we do should not be for our ego, but for the perpetuation of mankind in general. And not even just mankind but for all living creatures.

Pure Secular Materialism can actually be a worldview that has the highest morality possible. A genuine love of life and of others, with total selflessness in terms of worrying about having our own personal egos perpetuated for eternity.

It would seem to me that a worldview of Pure Secular Materialism is actually on higher moral ground than a religion like Christianity that focuses entirely on the salvation of the ego leading to an imagined eternal life of the ego.

Replace Pure Secular Materialism with God, and that is exactly how Christians(most) roll.

Have a great evening DI

[Donray]

Many religious people argue that if we just die when we die then life is worthless and meaningless. So for them, the idea of having their ego perpetuated for all of eternity appears to be the only thing of value to them.

You have stated the one reason people are Christians or Muslims.

[marco]

But what if reality is a pure secular materialistic world? What if when our ego dies, it dies and that's that. Does this make life worthless just because our personal selfish egos won't be perpetuated for all of eternity?

When Shakespeare's ego died 400 years ago Shakespeare didn't quite die. We create children or we sow ideas and attitudes in the minds of others and we live on.

Atheism without intellectuality is more worthless than blind belief in a God. I would rather have an intelligent Christian than a moronic atheist, but that's a matter of personal taste.

On the question of ending it all, seeing the uselessness of life, Hamlet addresses this well in his "To be or not to be" soliloquy. What dreams may come in that sleep of death must give us pause. Certainty is perhaps the alleged possession of the devout Christian; few atheists possess it.

[Divine Insight]

Replace Pure Secular Materialism with God, and that is exactly how Christians(most) roll.

Have a great evening DI

The only thing is, we have no evidence that Zeus actually exists. Or any other mythological or cultural God.

You may as well be talking about Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.

There is simply no need to invent these imaginary invisible anthropomorphic characters. And this is especially true if we're then going to claim that they are extremely jealous and will unleash unimaginably evil horrors to anyone who refuses to worship them.

At that point you've just made a monster out of your Santa Claus.

The problem with the Christian Jesus is that he supposedly hates everyone who refuses to worship him.

This is Santa Claus on Hate Drugs. Extremely self-centered hate-drugs to boot. Apparently all Jesus cares about is being the King of Kinds and Lord of Lords, and anyone who isn't willing to play that game with him he will become the most horrific demon and curse them with unspeakable evil curses.

This is the fundamental problem with Christianity. The moment that Jesus isn't recognized as the Lord of Lords he becomes more evil that Satan ever dreamed of becoming.

Where's the love then? Jesus is far more dangerous and hateful than Satan evidently.

[Peds nurse]

The only thing is, we have no evidence that Zeus actually exists. Or any other mythological or cultural God.

Hi DI!!!

You were not talking about whether or not God exists, you were talking about people who wish to continue their ego in another life.

You may as well be talking about Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.

There is simply no need to invent these imaginary invisible anthropomorphic characters. And this is especially true if we're then going to claim that they are extremely jealous and will unleash unimaginably evil horrors to anyone who refuses to worship them.

If every single argument, regardless of the debate topic, boils down to this, then why even have different topics other than, does God exist?

The problem with the Christian Jesus is that he supposedly hates everyone who refuses to worship him.

This is Santa Claus on Hate Drugs. Extremely self-centered hate-drugs to boot. Apparently all Jesus cares about is being the King of Kinds and Lord of Lords, and anyone who isn't willing to play that game with him he will become the most horrific demon and curse them with unspeakable evil curses.

This is the fundamental problem with Christianity. The moment that Jesus isn't recognized as the Lord of Lords he becomes more evil that Satan ever dreamed of becoming.

Where's the love then? Jesus is far more dangerous and hateful than Satan evidently.

I fear my friend, that you are merely grasping at straws. The only ego that we have, is the one that we place upon ourselves. I am positive that there are nicer people in this world than me. It has never been about saving myself, but rather loving God and His people.