SMUG ATHEISTS: WHY ARE YOU STILL IN THE CLOSET?

[2Dbunk]

At last check there were about 20 more Atheists than Christians on this board yet these forums are administered by a Christian. Us Atheists are guests and privileged to participate in such a setting. I, myself, have failed on occasion to respect the opposition and have been reminded to mind my manner.

I admit I get carried away in the heat of an argument -- I apologize for that. I hope in making a point in the future that I remain cool and objective. Civil communication is so very important in a world that seems to be testing the hinges of hell.

That said, I want to take atheists to task now (I’m using a small “a� for obvious reasons). IMO we are good at talking the talk but how many of us have “walked the walk?� We are good at ridiculing theists, especially fundamentalists, for their way of thinking. But how many of us have picketed some church on a Sunday morning for inane comments that their pastor had said and the hometown paper printed the absurdity as if it were fact? How many of us have demonstrated on the steps of the Supreme Court in support of Michael Newdow’s petition to scrub “In God We Trust� off of our currency? Marched in the American Atheists rally on the Mall in Washington, D.C.? Set up a Website to illustrate our values and concerns? Written letters to our newspapers to show our disgust for supercilious ecclesiastical based policies?

As long as we do nothing proactive and stay in the closet we will remain second class citizens, to continue to be vilified by people who have never met an Atheist but sure know how "evil" we are. We need to make ourselves known to others, to show them how decent and law abiding that we are. How many are aware that we take up far less space than "God fearing" offenders, per capita, in our nation’s prisons; our divorce rate is a fraction of Christians’ divorce rate. In short, we need to get out of the box that clerics have successfully put us in and sell ourselves for what we are: honest Americans. We need to show the electorate that honesty is one of our mainstays if we ever want to stand a chance of achieving any elective office (remember how Bernie Sanders was looked at askew for his possibly being an atheist). Today, politicians have a terrible track record as far as honesty is concerned. This is a major reason why Democracy is failing as a governmental institution. ALL politicians are admitted sinners (too many accused felons and potential felons, taking advantage of their expectation to sin and do wrong). I say we are honest because we have disdained any hope of living forever in "promised" bliss (a very tempting situation – all we have to do is lie to ourselves and others). But we have a problem with that!

My wife and I have been activists all of our married life. Fact is, we met up writing letters to the editor. She and I have done all of the above activities – sometimes she leads, sometimes I lead, and sometimes we just follow well planned demonstrations. Yeah, it’s thankless, unappreciated work but we feel good about it. It certainly is cathartic, not leaving any of our constitutional rights on the table!

You may wonder how it affects one’s ability to earn a living, what with “bad� publicity and all. We both had our own businesses. In my case I was overwhelmed with projects. After I started writing letters to the paper, my business dropped maybe 50%. Hey, that meant I finally had some free time to myself. In her case, she was traveling all over the State providing legal services that attorneys would no longer under take. We survived death threats (had good life and accident insurance) and lived to retire. She burned out in her activism and stays home taking care of the animals (dog, cat and me). I just can’t give it up . . . that’s why you hear from me on this Board.

My thanks to Otseng for this opportunity to vent my spleen – more civilly in the future, I hope.

[Mr.Badham]

[Replying to post 1 by 2Dbunk]

Agreed. I am Canadian, but I will do my best.

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to 2Dbunk]

As long as we do nothing proactive and stay in the closet we will remain second class citizens, to continue to be vilified by people who have never met an Atheist but sure know how "evil" we are. We need to make ourselves known to others, to show them how decent and law abiding that we are. How many are aware that we take up far less space than "God fearing" offenders, per capita, in our nation’s prisons; our divorce rate is a fraction of Christians’ divorce rate. In short, we need to get out of the box that clerics have successfully put us in and sell ourselves for what we are: honest Americans. We need to show the electorate that honesty is one of our mainstays if we ever want to stand a chance of achieving any elective office (remember how Bernie Sanders was looked at askew for his possibly being an atheist). Today, politicians have a terrible track record as far as honesty is concerned. This is a major reason why Democracy is failing as a governmental institution. ALL politicians are admitted sinners (too many accused felons and potential felons, taking advantage of their expectation to sin and do wrong). I say we are honest because we have disdained any hope of living forever in "promised" bliss (a very tempting situation – all we have to do is lie to ourselves and others). But we have a problem with that!

Thank you Badham for your reply.

We all know Democracy is in bad shape. We all lament that there seems to be no other way. A benevolent dictator sounds good except, what happens after he or she is gone? And we all know politicians lie and cheat a lot! Why do they lie and cheat? Because they know it's expected of them! Afterall, politicians are SINNERS and as long as they (and we) accept that as fact, Democracy will continue to degrade in the pantheon of political ideals.

What can be done? Okay, let's fix democracy! "Yeah, how you gonna do that?" someone might ask. Well, let's start by looking at our politicians of the past -- a time when they were respected. The founding fathers for example, caught up with the notion of not repeating the mistakes of history (Europe in particular). They disdained everything European, embracing philosophical and political ideas that were unheard of. A full three-fourths of them were Deists (some maybe atheists as Thomas Paine was accused of being -- all of them were atheists in the eyes of eighteenth century clerics). BUT THEY WERE HONEST and respected up to this day.

They had disdained the notion of sin in favor of a National identity of freedom of thought, speech, press. The notion of sin and repentance are shackles on our electorate and government of today. We have accepted this notion as a kind of default -- that is where the problem of Democracy is. Politicians beating their breasts about how religious they are is symptomatic of a growing tumor on our once pristine experiment with Democracy. Atheists must come to the rescue because we are the embodiment of honesty/truth. We can no longer stand in the shadows of bombastic baboons thrusting either a sword or a cross in the air, bellowing "Believe me."

So there you have it Atheists -- come save your country, and Democracy. Keep up your good rhetoric (it helps to get the WORD out) but GET ACTIVE and let's throw these bums out!

[amortalman]

[Replying to post 1 by 2Dbunk]

I can see your point. But what I think you fail to consider is that some people just aren't cut out to be activists. It doesn't mean that they aren't concerned with the issues you brought up. Maybe they're just introverts. Maybe they hate or are afraid of confrontation or some other aspect of activism.

Like any other endeavor, there are zealots who blaze the trails and there are those, more like myself, that trudge along in a supporting role, bringing up the rear. I think there's a place for both kinds within any movement.

There are many other reasons, some philosophical, why someone might choose to remain out of the spotlight. Whether or not the world would truly be a better place without religion is up for debate. There are so many unknowns it's impossible to predict. I'm aware of the horrors and injustices that some religions have caused, but as a former Christian, I also know of the many benevolent things they do, of which I was a part of for fifteen years.

As for myself, I'm a new defector from an evangelical church and seeking my place within the ranks of unbelievers and sorting out my beliefs, whether atheist, agnostic, humanist, etc. Maybe when I solidify my position and shed myself of the brainwashing I endured for so long I'll become more involved. Until then, I'll stay off the front lines.

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to post 4 by amortalman]

I appreciate what you say. When I was in transition your words rang true with the way I felt -- not stepping in the way of my boys mother's insistence in bringing them up in an evangelical way. There's an Amish saying: "Too soon old, too late smart" that says it all -- It takes time to figure these things out.

My activism commenced when my boys were grown and my first marriage dissolved. At this late date, one boy is ambivalent and the other sympathetic to my point of view. I now regret that they were to some extent indoctrinated in the evangelical way.

Nevertheless, I have crossed the Rubicon and have achieved a state of mental freedom that I only imagined even existed. I probably would have kept silent if it hadn't been for the hell-bent-for-leather evangelizing of the fundamentalists. Had I been raised in, say, the Quaker traditition, I probably would not have questioned anything.

[amortalman]

[Replying to post 4 by amortalman]

I love that Amish saying!
I probably would not have dropped out of my church if my pastor could have given me logical answers to the many questions that troubled me about the Biblical text. For example, I asked him (a Biblical literalist) about all those ridiculous miracles in the Old Testament - Samson slaying 1000 Philistines with the jawbone of an ass, a snake that speaks, a donkey that talks, an iron ax head that floats, and on and on. To me, they look like myth and legend, I said. He seemed to be stunned by my questions like he had never thought about those things before. There are more serious issues with evangelical doctrines of course, and the more I investigated the clearer it became that science is outpacing religion and churches are struggling to maintain the status quo.
Thanks for your comments!
A

[help3434]

That said, I want to take atheists to task now (I’m using a small “a� for obvious reasons). IMO we are good at talking the talk but how many of us have “walked the walk?� We are good at ridiculing theists, especially fundamentalists, for their way of thinking. But how many of us have picketed some church on a Sunday morning for inane comments that their pastor had said and the hometown paper printed the absurdity as if it were fact?

Why would I want to picket a church just because the pastor said something inane? You taking atheist to task for not doing this is inane to me. Should I try to find a way to picket your user name?

How many of us have demonstrated on the steps of the Supreme Court in support of Michael Newdow’s petition to scrub “In God We Trust� off of our currency?

That is not something I care about one bit. Having those words on money or not doesn't effect me.

Marched in the American Atheists rally on the Mall in Washington, D.C.? Set up a Website to illustrate our values and concerns? Written letters to our newspapers to show our disgust for supercilious ecclesiastical based policies?

What values do I as a an atheist necessarily have that are not shared by those of faith who uphold separation of church and state? What is the point of having a explicitly atheist political activism rather than secular? It is identity politics and there is already too much of that.

As long as we do nothing proactive and stay in the closet we will remain second class citizens, to continue to be vilified by people who have never met an Atheist but sure know how "evil" we are. We need to make ourselves known to others, to show them how decent and law abiding that we are.

More atheists doing the things you suggested would probably increase the perception that atheists are overbearing people that always want to get their own way rather than getting people to think that we are decent and law abiding.

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to help3434]

Why would I want to picket a church just because the pastor said something inane? You taking atheist to task for not doing this is inane to me. Should I try to find a way to picket your user name?

Different strokes for different blokes brother. Trying to get Atheists to do anything in concert is like herding cats. Sure, you are independent and are not needy of peer support -- that's one of our strengths! But until we unite into some cogent political or social group, we will always be falsely labeled as anarchists or communist sympathizers. Protesting fake pronouncements is one of our inalienable rights!

That is not something I care about one bit. Having those words on money or not doesn't effect me.

Yeah, it's a little thing, words on paper as nonsensical as they are. But don't you agree that it is a violation of Jefferson's separation of church and state?

What values do I as a an atheist necessarily have that are not shared by those of faith who uphold separation of church and state? What is the point of having a explicitly atheist political activism rather than secular? It is identity politics and there is already too much of that.

If you were there you would have noticed that all the counter-protesters were fundamentalists. Yes, mainstream religious organizations are respectful of separation of church and state. Our fight is not with civilized religious activity -- only with fanatical zealots that label atheists evil (see Psalm 14 for their reasoning).
Is that something you want to see continued unchallenged?

More atheists doing the things you suggested would probably increase the perception that atheists are overbearing people that always want to get their own way rather than getting people to think that we are decent and law abiding.

Isn't that the way the Jews were viewed in Nazi Germany ". . . overbearing people that always want to get their own way"? They did nothing but tried to leave Germany -- so many didn't make it as we all know. Anyway, Isn't that what we ALL want: to get our own way, in the pursuit of happiness (of course, within the confines of the law)?

Our protests were always peaceful -- for good reason. The Jews in Germany were peaceful, law abiding citizens. I dare say, had they been more vociferous, perhaps the world would have taken more notice to their plight.