Deep thinking

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Waterfall
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Deep thinking

Post #1

Post by Waterfall »

Hello everybody

I have some questions for atheist and theist.

Why do atheist put children into the world?

Nobody wants to be born without legs. Nobody wants a terrible disease. Nobody wants to be murdered.

But all these things happens in this world.

If atheist say that there isn't anything after death, then they are undermining there own ability to put children into the world, because there is nobody (intelligent) who wants to be born into that kind of world.

Have atheist thought about that?

I don´t think Christopher Hitchens (R.I.P.) or Richard Dawkins have thought about that...

Now (some) theist also have a problem, because why do they put children into the world, if God is sending them to a eternal hell?

I think the christian worldview is very strange, because if I put 10 children into the world, then God will send 9 of them to a eternal hell.

Very strange and not a good reason for me to put 10 children into the world.

Maybe I only should put one child into the world...but then I won't be doing Gods will...because God needs 10 children...because 9 have to go to a eternal hell...because that is what the good book say...well...what shall I do?

If I only put 1 child into the world then I destroy this book...because this book is based on me putting many children into the world.

Isn't it?

In fact we could blow the world apart today and the book would have failed completely...but why should we blow the world apart...just to prove a point.

That would be insane...but then again...we are going to die anyway...so why not go out whit a big bang...and stop the madness on earth.

Why do we keep on putting children into the world? Don´t we know the price for that action? How many children will suffer? Are we willing to pay the price for a day more on earth? Who are selling life? Who are buying life?

Do you wanner be born into a world where there is no heaven...where there is no place to put your dead parents? Your dead wife/hosbond...Your dead children...Your dead friends...Yourself.

Don´t we have a good reason to talk about a soul?

Maybe people like Putin don´t have a good reason to talk about a soul...maybe a soul is a scaring thought for them...because they have a lot to answar for.

So there are also a good reason not to talk about a soul...

But here we all should remember that God have a great plan for us all.

Maybe Putin haven´t heard about the great plan...justice...compassion...understanding...forgivenes...love...development...reincarnation.

Lets talk about reincarnation...because I don´t think we have got this right...are the soul created? How many souls are there? How many bodies are there? Are there more souls than bodies?

Now we are back to some kind of strange thinking...because every time there is created a body...then a soul have to fall down from heaven...and so we are in control of that fall...because we can stop putting bodies into the world.

Do the soul fall down from heaven or do it chose to come down from heaven or do it start from earth and then is on a road to heaven? Or? Where did Jesus come from? Heaven? Where did Hitler come from? Hell?

A thought on all this helltalk...because if God (the almighty) have empty the hellworld for resident, then why are we still talking about a hell? Maybe there was a hellworld at one point in time? Maybe it is gone now? Maybe Satan have turn around? Maybe Satan is asking for forgivenes? How great is God?

Who created the human body? Why don´t animals have a soul? When did God connect a soul to the human body? And why? What is the good news? That we have got it all roung? What is the real story about life on earth? Where do we come from? Where are we going? What should we tell our children? See you in heaven? Who is writting the story on earth?

Together we can change the world...but how? What are we going to teach our children? Be a good son/daughter? Well...maybe we should be a good father/mother first?

What kind of world are we putting children into?

Lets say I put 3 women and 6 men on the planet...then I have created a problem for them, because what are they going to do? 1 women and 2 men...is that aloud? What shall they do?

Just thinking out loud...

Here at the end of all this thinking I have to say that my english aint to good, so I hope you will bear with me on this.

And merry christmas to you all

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Re: Deep thinking

Post #2

Post by TheBeardedDude »

Waterfall wrote: Hello everybody

I have some questions for atheist and theist.

Why do atheist put children into the world?

Nobody wants to be born without legs. Nobody wants a terrible disease. Nobody wants to be murdered.

But all these things happens in this world.

If atheist say that there isn't anything after death, then they are undermining there own ability to put children into the world, because there is nobody (intelligent) who wants to be born into that kind of world.

Have atheist thought about that?

I don´t think Christopher Hitchens (R.I.P.) or Richard Dawkins have thought about that...

Now (some) theist also have a problem, because why do they put children into the world, if God is sending them to a eternal hell?

I think the christian worldview is very strange, because if I put 10 children into the world, then God will send 9 of them to a eternal hell.

Very strange and not a good reason for me to put 10 children into the world.

Maybe I only should put one child into the world...but then I won't be doing Gods will...because God needs 10 children...because 9 have to go to a eternal hell...because that is what the good book say...well...what shall I do?

If I only put 1 child into the world then I destroy this book...because this book is based on me putting many children into the world.

Isn't it?

In fact we could blow the world apart today and the book would have failed completely...but why should we blow the world apart...just to prove a point.

That would be insane...but then again...we are going to die anyway...so why not go out whit a big bang...and stop the madness on earth.

Why do we keep on putting children into the world? Don´t we know the price for that action? How many children will suffer? Are we willing to pay the price for a day more on earth? Who are selling life? Who are buying life?

Do you wanner be born into a world where there is no heaven...where there is no place to put your dead parents? Your dead wife/hosbond...Your dead children...Your dead friends...Yourself.

Don´t we have a good reason to talk about a soul?

Maybe people like Putin don´t have a good reason to talk about a soul...maybe a soul is a scaring thought for them...because they have a lot to answar for.

So there are also a good reason not to talk about a soul...

But here we all should remember that God have a great plan for us all.

Maybe Putin haven´t heard about the great plan...justice...compassion...understanding...forgivenes...love...development...reincarnation.

Lets talk about reincarnation...because I don´t think we have got this right...are the soul created? How many souls are there? How many bodies are there? Are there more souls than bodies?

Now we are back to some kind of strange thinking...because every time there is created a body...then a soul have to fall down from heaven...and so we are in control of that fall...because we can stop putting bodies into the world.

Do the soul fall down from heaven or do it chose to come down from heaven or do it start from earth and then is on a road to heaven? Or? Where did Jesus come from? Heaven? Where did Hitler come from? Hell?

A thought on all this helltalk...because if God (the almighty) have empty the hellworld for resident, then why are we still talking about a hell? Maybe there was a hellworld at one point in time? Maybe it is gone now? Maybe Satan have turn around? Maybe Satan is asking for forgivenes? How great is God?

Who created the human body? Why don´t animals have a soul? When did God connect a soul to the human body? And why? What is the good news? That we have got it all roung? What is the real story about life on earth? Where do we come from? Where are we going? What should we tell our children? See you in heaven? Who is writting the story on earth?

Together we can change the world...but how? What are we going to teach our children? Be a good son/daughter? Well...maybe we should be a good father/mother first?

What kind of world are we putting children into?

Lets say I put 3 women and 6 men on the planet...then I have created a problem for them, because what are they going to do? 1 women and 2 men...is that aloud? What shall they do?

Just thinking out loud...

Here at the end of all this thinking I have to say that my english aint to good, so I hope you will bear with me on this.

And merry christmas to you all
"Why do atheist put children into the world?"

Because I like kids and want to help raise a generation that will try and solve problems instead of creating them.

"If atheist say that there isn't anything after death, then they are undermining there own ability to put children into the world, because there is nobody (intelligent) who wants to be born into that kind of world."

This assertion appears to be little more than an attempt at a veiled insult.

I want to be born into this world because the alternative (not having ever existed) sounds like less fun. I will take my chances in an imperfect world because I don't expect perfection.

"I don´t think Christopher Hitchens (R.I.P.) or Richard Dawkins have thought about that..."

It would be a really good idea to read some of what they wrote about this subject. In fact, Hitchens wrote while he was undergoing treatment for cancer and it was compiled into a short book/pamphlet titled "Mortality." (Meaning that you are demonstrably wrong in your assertion that atheists, and Dawkins and Hitchens specifically, haven't thought about life and death and the perpetuation of life on Earth. Dawkins as an evolutionary biologist, has literally spent his career thinking about life and procreation and death.)

"Don´t we have a good reason to talk about a soul?"

If souls are real, go for it. But there is no evidence of a soul. There is no evidence that there is a part of "you" that exists separate from your body. So until we know souls are real, it doesn't really make for good discussion.

(I think I addressed the rest, or at least the bulk, of your other questions in these few responses)

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Post #3

Post by Divine Insight »

Hi Waterfall,

You ask extremely good questions. These are questions I thought about way back in my early teens or even earlier. In fact, when I thought about these questions I actually chose at that time to NOT bring any new humans into this world. :D

I'm 67 years old now and I have held true to my conviction. I cannot be held responsible for any humans living on this planet because I didn't bring them here. ;)

These are extremely great questions to ask.

I also have THREE answers to offer you. One of them I did not fully understand until very late in life, at least until my mid 40's. And that was a bit late to be acting on by then.

Secular Naturalism (not to be confused with Atheism)
(just to be clear atheism simply means to not believe in any particular theism, it doesn't necessarily mean that a person holds that there is no God, only that they see no reason to believe in one)

I agree with you that if we truly believe that the world is just some sort of naturalistic accident, then having children is an extremely cruel game of craps. We are bringing humans into a world where they can potentially face extreme suffering that is totally beyond either our control or their control. So in Secular Naturalism we are gambling with the life of every human we create via procreation. And it is a valid question to ask why we should take such a gamble for a human who hasn't even been given the opportunity to choose whether or not they care to come into this world.

Christianity (Or ANY of the Abrahamic Religions)

This isn't any better. In fact if a person believes in hell or "everlasting punishment" as Jesus decreed then giving birth to a child who could end up in an eternal place of torture would even be much WORSE than Secular Naturalism. So having a baby when a person believes in Christianity is an extremely dangerous crap shoot with a human life. In fact, Jesus preached that only FEW will make it into the Kingdom of Heaven, this leaves the VAST MAJORITY hell-bound! Thus in Christianity the chance that your children will end up in hell is FAR GREATER than the change that they would be among the FEW who go to heaven. So in Christianity having a child is almost certain to condemn the child to everlasting punishment. The chance that the child would make it to heaven is extremely slim according to Christ.

Buddhism, Reincarnation, and Karma

This is the worldview I didn't truly understand until well into my 40's. I knew about it way back in my early 20's, but I didn't truly understand it until about my 40's.

If Buddhism is true, then bringing children into the world would be no problem at all. Had I been born into Buddhism and truly understood it (and believed in it) I may very well have decided to have a very large family of children. But then again if I was only believing in it on faith I could have still been playing a major game of craps with the lives of the children I created.

Buddhism (if true) solves all the problems you brought up. Reincarnation and Karma solve all problems. Karma insures that no one suffers more than they can truly handle or "deserve". Reincarnation insures that young people had lived previous lives which can potentially justify their suffering in this life, and they can recover and be rewarded in future lives as they learn that their own karma is creating their own reality.

Just as a note on your problems with reincarnation:

Reincarnation isn't limited to only planet earth. Neither is it limited by time. In fact, it's not even limited to this physical universe at all. So there's no need to worry about there being a consistent number of "souls" on planet earth at any given moment. Once you understand that reincarnation can be unlimited who might show up on earth at any given time is not a problem. Also, there's no reason why all souls would need to "constantly" be incarnated. When a soul move "out" of an incarnated state "time" also changes dramatically for that soul. So that soul could remain "out" of an incarnated state for what appears to be eons to us, but for that soul that time didn't exist at all. There is no experience of time outside of an incarnation. In fact, there is no experience at all outside of an incarnation.

~~~~~~

And now for the real problem:

Even though Buddhism solves all these problems there's no way to know that Buddhism is true. It could amount to nothing more than an imagined philosophy that just happens to solve all these problems. :D

So we're still stuck with having no clue what the true nature of reality might be.

None the less, had I been born with an understanding of, and a believe in, Buddhism, I might have decided to have a big family with lots of children. Then later in life when I finally realized that I can't know for sure whether Buddhism is true or not I might have regretted creating so many humans. :shock:

As it is now I haven't created any. So I'm off the hook entirely. 8-)

In fact, if you stop and think about this, I was so concerned about the fate of human souls that I chose not to create any. Therefore if I was created by a God who would cast me into hell, then he is far beneath me in terms of caring what happens to human souls.

I don't see how a creator God could allow any harm come to me when I wouldn't even think about taking the chance of creating a human who only "might" be harmed.
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Re: Deep thinking

Post #4

Post by Divine Insight »

TheBeardedDude wrote: I want to be born into this world because the alternative (not having ever existed) sounds like less fun. I will take my chances in an imperfect world because I don't expect perfection.
I wonder though whether atheists (or especially secular naturalists) truly recognize than when they choose to have a child they are indeed choosing to "create" a new human life?

Or do they just take the whole thing for granted as being part of what nature does?

When a secular naturalist has a child then need to realize that they are 100% responsible for having created that life.

I think that even religious people can easily shrug off the responsibility for having created a human life because they think that "God did it". It was HIS PLAN, and all they did was serve as vehicles to implement HIS PLAN. So in this sense a religious person can view their own children as being God's Creation rather than there. And ironically this relieves religious parents from the responsibility of having actually "created" their child.

I personally wouldn't even want to be "used" by a God in that way. In fact, if that's what's going on then I would absolutely want no parts of it.

At least as Secular Naturalist would be responsible for having chosen to "create" a human life. But I truly wonder how many secular naturalists truly understand the responsibility of that act?

If anything horrific happens to your child, then you were the "Creator" who failed to protect your child. Even if your failure was due to your own mortal ineptitude.

In fact, this is one reason that kept me from having children. What if I had a child and then I died for some reason beyond my control? Then I wouldn't even be able to raise the life I had created, much less try to protect him or her from harm.

Secular Naturalism really lays the responsibility for creating new human life squarely on our shoulders. A responsibility that Secular Naturalism doesn't even provide us with sufficient abilities to live up to. Secular Naturalism becomes a total crap shoot. It truly does. In fact, that's what it has to be from the get go. It's the very nature of Secular Naturalism to be a "crap shoot". <--- speaking of the gambling game here. It's just a random toss of the dice.
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Re: Deep thinking

Post #5

Post by TheBeardedDude »

Divine Insight wrote:
TheBeardedDude wrote: I want to be born into this world because the alternative (not having ever existed) sounds like less fun. I will take my chances in an imperfect world because I don't expect perfection.
I wonder though whether atheists (or especially secular naturalists) truly recognize than when they choose to have a child they are indeed choosing to "create" a new human life?

Or do they just take the whole thing for granted as being part of what nature does?

When a secular naturalist has a child then need to realize that they are 100% responsible for having created that life.

I think that even religious people can easily shrug off the responsibility for having created a human life because they think that "God did it". It was HIS PLAN, and all they did was serve as vehicles to implement HIS PLAN. So in this sense a religious person can view their own children as being God's Creation rather than there. And ironically this relieves religious parents from the responsibility of having actually "created" their child.

I personally wouldn't even want to be "used" by a God in that way. In fact, if that's what's going on then I would absolutely want no parts of it.

At least as Secular Naturalist would be responsible for having chosen to "create" a human life. But I truly wonder how many secular naturalists truly understand the responsibility of that act?

If anything horrific happens to your child, then you were the "Creator" who failed to protect your child. Even if your failure was due to your own mortal ineptitude.

In fact, this is one reason that kept me from having children. What if I had a child and then I died for some reason beyond my control? Then I wouldn't even be able to raise the life I had created, much less try to protect him or her from harm.

Secular Naturalism really lays the responsibility for creating new human life squarely on our shoulders. A responsibility that Secular Naturalism doesn't even provide us with sufficient abilities to live up to. Secular Naturalism becomes a total crap shoot. It truly does. In fact, that's what it has to be from the get go. It's the very nature of Secular Naturalism to be a "crap shoot". <--- speaking of the gambling game here. It's just a random toss of the dice.
"I wonder though whether atheists (or especially secular naturalists) truly recognize than when they choose to have a child they are indeed choosing to "create" a new human life?"

Yes, I was well aware of what I was doing.

"Or do they just take the whole thing for granted as being part of what nature does?"

These aren't mutually exclusive.

"I personally wouldn't even want to be "used" by a God in that way. In fact, if that's what's going on then I would absolutely want no parts of it. "

I can dig that

"At least as Secular Naturalist would be responsible for having chosen to "create" a human life. But I truly wonder how many secular naturalists truly understand the responsibility of that act? "

Having a kid isn't really something you realize the full ramifications of until AFTER you do it. No matter how well prepared you think you are.

"If anything horrific happens to your child, then you were the "Creator" who failed to protect your child. Even if your failure was due to your own mortal ineptitude."

Yeah, this is one of the perpetual worries of being a parent; failure means death (at least on the extreme end of things). This has a pretty far reaching set of consequences too, I don't even watch movies in the same way any more. Any scene where someone is about to die, is a lot more distressing now. I wonder not only about the character but the other characters that care for them. I did that, to a degree, before my kids were born, but it is different now.

"In fact, this is one reason that kept me from having children. What if I had a child and then I died for some reason beyond my control? Then I wouldn't even be able to raise the life I had created, much less try to protect him or her from harm."

I certainly won't try and talk you out of your reasons for or for not procreating, that's very personal stuff. I worry about what would happen if myself or my partner passes, and it would definitely not be easy, but you do things for your kids you wouldn't do otherwise.

There is a great infographic (that I can't find) that kind of illustrates what it is like having kids. The highs are higher and lows are lower. I enjoy playing with my kids and enjoy even more the things we share (legos, video games, movies, etc), it's kind of bizarre in a way but I have gotten a new level of enjoyment out of things. But these highs are balanced out by new lows. So what if I die and I am a single human? Well, what if I die and leave behind my partner and kids? That is a new depressing thought that is balanced out by the thought of seeing my kids grow up. Etc, etc...

"Secular Naturalism really lays the responsibility for creating new human life squarely on our shoulders. A responsibility that Secular Naturalism doesn't even provide us with sufficient abilities to live up to. Secular Naturalism becomes a total crap shoot. It truly does. In fact, that's what it has to be from the get go. It's the very nature of Secular Naturalism to be a "crap shoot". <--- speaking of the gambling game here. It's just a random toss of the dice."

It isn't a completely random set of events. The world is chaotic, but that isn't necessarily the same as random. But yes, it does rest squarely on our shoulders, as does our own life too. And at some point when raising kids, it begins to rest squarely on their shoulders as the burden of raising kids shifts onto the newly anointed adults. Don't forget, they grow up too!

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Re: Deep thinking

Post #6

Post by Divine Insight »

TheBeardedDude wrote: Having a kid isn't really something you realize the full ramifications of until AFTER you do it. No matter how well prepared you think you are.
This is clearly a subjective personal perspective that obviously doesn't apply to everyone, myself being a prime example. I was clearly fully aware of the ramifications BEFORE I had a child and this is what caused me to chose to not procreate. :D

I never married either which was not my preferred choice, but had I married I would have been open to adopting children to raise who were already in this world. That certainly would have been an option. I think I would have made a fantastic father for children had that ever come to pass. Even though I hadn't created those children I would have still done my best to see that they were as well-prepared to deal with life as possible.
TheBeardedDude wrote: It isn't a completely random set of events. The world is chaotic, but that isn't necessarily the same as random. But yes, it does rest squarely on our shoulders, as does our own life too. And at some point when raising kids, it begins to rest squarely on their shoulders as the burden of raising kids shifts onto the newly anointed adults. Don't forget, they grow up too!
I didn't mean to imply the random aspect of a crap shoot so much as the fact that the outcome is totally out of the control of the player.

It might also be informative to know that when I was a teen (18) the USA still had the Military Draft. And the Vietnam war was on. So I could have been whisked off to a war that I didn't even approve of totally against my will. It turns out that I "won" that crap shoot when the military came up with the lottery system and I got a really high number that would never be called. Still that was just a stroke of crap-shooting luck.

My Secular Naturalism complaint is that humans in general far more likely to be stupid than smart. War like Vietnam are proof of this. There was not "threat" to the freedom of the USA coming from Vietnam. It was strictly a political war that the US should have never been involved in.

My only point here is that we as individual humans basically have NO CONTROL at all over how idiots run the world. Our current situation in the USA with Donald Idiot Trump in office is a prime example of this. While it's true that some people clearly voted for him and want this madness, those of us who didn't are stuck with it whether we like it or not.

Currently DIT (Donald Idiot Trump) has proclaimed to the world via Twitter and a follow-up interview with Mika Brzezinski that he is inviting all nations to play with him in a game of "Nuclear Arms Race". :shock:

In the meantime you're supposed to be trying to raise your kids on this planet?

This is worse than randomness BeardedDude, this is insanity gone wild.

Anyone who has a child whilst DIT is POTUS has to not care about human life at all.
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Re: Deep thinking

Post #7

Post by TheBeardedDude »

Divine Insight wrote:
TheBeardedDude wrote: Having a kid isn't really something you realize the full ramifications of until AFTER you do it. No matter how well prepared you think you are.
This is clearly a subjective personal perspective that obviously doesn't apply to everyone, myself being a prime example. I was clearly fully aware of the ramifications BEFORE I had a child and this is what caused me to chose to not procreate. :D

I never married either which was not my preferred choice, but had I married I would have been open to adopting children to raise who were already in this world. That certainly would have been an option. I think I would have made a fantastic father for children had that ever come to pass. Even though I hadn't created those children I would have still done my best to see that they were as well-prepared to deal with life as possible.
TheBeardedDude wrote: It isn't a completely random set of events. The world is chaotic, but that isn't necessarily the same as random. But yes, it does rest squarely on our shoulders, as does our own life too. And at some point when raising kids, it begins to rest squarely on their shoulders as the burden of raising kids shifts onto the newly anointed adults. Don't forget, they grow up too!
I didn't mean to imply the random aspect of a crap shoot so much as the fact that the outcome is totally out of the control of the player.

It might also be informative to know that when I was a teen (18) the USA still had the Military Draft. And the Vietnam war was on. So I could have been whisked off to a war that I didn't even approve of totally against my will. It turns out that I "won" that crap shoot when the military came up with the lottery system and I got a really high number that would never be called. Still that was just a stroke of crap-shooting luck.

My Secular Naturalism complaint is that humans in general far more likely to be stupid than smart. War like Vietnam are proof of this. There was not "threat" to the freedom of the USA coming from Vietnam. It was strictly a political war that the US should have never been involved in.

My only point here is that we as individual humans basically have NO CONTROL at all over how idiots run the world. Our current situation in the USA with Donald Idiot Trump in office is a prime example of this. While it's true that some people clearly voted for him and want this madness, those of us who didn't are stuck with it whether we like it or not.

Currently DIT (Donald Idiot Trump) has proclaimed to the world via Twitter and a follow-up interview with Mika Brzezinski that he is inviting all nations to play with him in a game of "Nuclear Arms Race". :shock:

In the meantime you're supposed to be trying to raise your kids on this planet?

This is worse than randomness BeardedDude, this is insanity gone wild.

Anyone who has a child whilst DIT is POTUS has to not care about human life at all.
"This is clearly a subjective personal perspective that obviously doesn't apply to everyone, myself being a prime example. I was clearly fully aware of the ramifications BEFORE I had a child and this is what caused me to chose to not procreate. :D"

Of course it is personal and subjective, that was my point. As for being "fully aware," I highly doubt it. You have clearly given it some thought, but some things aren't really the sort you can fully prepare for. Even if you try and think about all of the different possibilities, you don't know how you will react and act once you have kids.

For example, I NEVER EVER wanted to see my children being born. Heck no, keep me away from that action. But, when the time came with my oldest, I was right there and watched the whole thing. I thought I was prepared and even made plans for how to handle that very specific event, but they fell through almost instantly when the action started. You can try and be aware, but being "fully" aware is not something I see as possible. I have two kids and even I am not fully aware of all the ramifications of having kids!

"I never married either which was not my preferred choice, but had I married I would have been open to adopting children to raise who were already in this world. That certainly would have been an option. I think I would have made a fantastic father for children had that ever come to pass. Even though I hadn't created those children I would have still done my best to see that they were as well-prepared to deal with life as possible. "

I admire people who adopt and my parter and I have discussed it before but I don't know if we ever will.

"I didn't mean to imply the random aspect of a crap shoot so much as the fact that the outcome is totally out of the control of the player. "

Sure, some things are out of our control (I can't control a volcanic eruption nor single handedly prevent Trump from having been elected), but how we respond is at least partially in our control.

"My Secular Naturalism complaint is that humans in general far more likely to be stupid than smart. War like Vietnam are proof of this. There was not "threat" to the freedom of the USA coming from Vietnam. It was strictly a political war that the US should have never been involved in. "

Yep, some animals can be quite stupid and humans are clearly no exception. All the more reason to raise smart kids to try and balance out the stupid ones.

"My only point here is that we as individual humans basically have NO CONTROL at all over how idiots run the world. Our current situation in the USA with Donald Idiot Trump in office is a prime example of this. While it's true that some people clearly voted for him and want this madness, those of us who didn't are stuck with it whether we like it or not."

We have limited control, not no control. But yes, there are many things (like ol' Trump) that give me a lot of reason to worry about the future. Which I see as a good reason to try and raise the next generation of people that are, hopefully, a little less stupid than the last.

The whole of the history of life is one where individuals are stuck with the world they find themselves in. The key is to adapt in order to survive and make the most out of the life you get. At least, that's what I care about.

"Currently DIT (Donald Idiot Trump) has proclaimed to the world via Twitter and a follow-up interview with Mika Brzezinski that he is inviting all nations to play with him in a game of "Nuclear Arms Race". :shock: "

Yeah, he's a bonehead. He may very well bring about the end of life on Earth, not just humans, if we end up in another nuclear arms race. Got to keep fighting until we can replace in 4 years with someone more sane and intelligent.

"In the meantime you're supposed to be trying to raise your kids on this planet?"

I treat it like a lesson. You don't always get a say in who your boss is and sometimes they are a complete nutter. In those cases, it won't do much (if any) good to match their irrationality with your own. Sometimes you have to sit back and be patient, wait for an opening and make a move. Sure, it isn't ideal but if I can help make my kids smarter than me then I am doing a great job as far as I am concerned.

"This is worse than randomness BeardedDude, this is insanity gone wild."

The insanity of people like Trump has been with us for a long time, it comes and goes. Trump won because the good people in certain states felt (for whatever reason) that it wasn't worth their time to go vote against him. I bet those people regret that now and hopefully we will all learn that lesson by the midterm elections.

"Anyone who has a child whilst DIT is POTUS has to not care about human life at all."

Easy there, one of mine is pretty dadgum new to the whole "life" thing. You're getting precariously close to insulting me here!

I think an alternate perspective might be that some people who choose to procreate during the Trump years, are hopeful of a couple of things:
1) they can raise a generation of people to see through the likes of Trump
2) it can't get worse than Trump, right?

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Divine Insight
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Re: Deep thinking

Post #8

Post by Divine Insight »

TheBeardedDude wrote: I think an alternate perspective might be that some people who choose to procreate during the Trump years, are hopeful of a couple of things:
1) they can raise a generation of people to see through the likes of Trump
2) it can't get worse than Trump, right?
Well you do have a point there. If there is any value in having a "challenge" to improve the quality of life, we certainly have a huge challenge in our current political situation.
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Re: Deep thinking

Post #9

Post by Waterfall »

[Replying to post 7 by TheBeardedDude]

Hi TheBeardedDude and Divine Insight

Thanks for your answers to these questions.

I would like to sit (for a moment) and just listen to you "debate".

Hope that is alright.

As for Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins I most say, that I have only seen a lot of debates whit them and have never incounted them debate these questions (have they?).

And for the record I did consider to write it like this...I don´t think Christopher Hitchens (R.I.P.) or Richard Dawkins have thought about that...but maybe they have?

Maybe I should have done that...

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Re: Deep thinking

Post #10

Post by TheBeardedDude »

Divine Insight wrote:
TheBeardedDude wrote: I think an alternate perspective might be that some people who choose to procreate during the Trump years, are hopeful of a couple of things:
1) they can raise a generation of people to see through the likes of Trump
2) it can't get worse than Trump, right?
Well you do have a point there. If there is any value in having a "challenge" to improve the quality of life, we certainly have a huge challenge in our current political situation.
To me the value of a challenge is the challenge itself. Since I don't believe heaven is real and that Utopia is implausible, I'd like to see humanity strive for as close to either as we can achieve in this life. That is the value to me. That will probably differ from person to person.

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