If God exists then Infinity does not exist

[jgh7]

Does this make sense?

1) Infinity is that which has no end.
2) It is impossible to reach the end of something with no end.
3) God can do everything that is possible to do in existence.
4) If God can't do something, then that something does not actually exist, for if it did exist then God could do it.
5) God can not reach the end of infinity for infinity has no end.
6 conclusion) An actual infinity does not exist if God exists.

Consequence: Everything in existence must have a beginning (infinitely back in time does not exist) and end (infinitely forwad in time does not exist) if God exists. Since God would also be part of existence, He must have a beginning and an end as well.

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 40 by Overcomer]

God is eternal, not infinite.

If God is finite, then God can be defined. God has a form, but there really isn't anything biblical to suggest that God has a form or is formed. God can dwell in form, but God isn't form or formed itself.

[DPMartin]

Does this make sense?

1) Infinity is that which has no end.
2) It is impossible to reach the end of something with no end.
3) God can do everything that is possible to do in existence.
4) If God can't do something, then that something does not actually exist, for if it did exist then God could do it.
5) God can not reach the end of infinity for infinity has no end.
6 conclusion) An actual infinity does not exist if God exists.

Consequence: Everything in existence must have a beginning (infinitely back in time does not exist) and end (infinitely forwad in time does not exist) if God exists. Since God would also be part of existence, He must have a beginning and an end as well.

creation or universe or cosmos has a beginning and a end. time energy space and matter have a beginning and end. not the case with God.

just because God exists doesn't mean He has a beginning and end. God inhabits eternity. also after you make a house doesn't mean you can't dwell in it. also doesn't mean you must have a house to be. God created then dwelled within His creation.

[ThePainefulTruth]

I'm not sure I understand where the fault in my argument lies. Let me rephrase it this way.

1) God, being all powerful, has the ability to reach all times in existence.
2) It is impossible to reach all times in an infinite existence because it never ends.
3) Therefore, either God can't reach all times in existence or existence must have an end.

Which one of these 3 points is incorrect and why?

You are thinking of the situation within this 4D natural, local (having time and distance) universe. But it came to be at the Big Bang and exists "within", for lack of a better word, the timeless, distanceless (non-local) environment of Quantumland. Evidence for this is the EPR paradox where quantum particles appear to communicate across vast distances instantly. But they don't communicate in this universe, they must do it in the "external", non-local Quantumland--from which our universe was extruded, so to speak.

This being the case, 2) would be possible and God and would only appear to be eternal to our universe, as It watches us from Quantumland--if God exists.

As for 3), all we know is that the universe had a beginning. But having a beginning only means having an ending is possible; but that for us is an unknown, and for all intents and purposes, irrelevant.

[shnarkle]

Consequence: Everything in existence must have a beginning (infinitely back in time does not exist) and end (infinitely forwad in time does not exist) if God exists. Since God would also be part of existence, He must have a beginning and an end as well.

I could be wrong here, but i think there's a big difference between talking of a part of existence and existence itself. If God is simply a part of existence then your conclusion makes sense. If existence is eternal this would still be the case, but if God exists wihtin existence itself then God is eternal as well.

I don't mean to use the word "itself" because existence doesn't have a self; it's just a way to identify what can't be identified. In other words, existence isn't a "what"; neither is God.

[Walterbl]

I also believe that an actual infinite cannot exist. Like, i don't really know how to back it up, but it just seems like it.

Perhaps a explanation of eternity is that the beggning and the end are one and the same.

[Tcg]

I also believe that an actual infinite cannot exist. Like, i don't really know how to back it up, but it just seems like it.

The extent of your "argument" is that it just seems like it? I must agree with one of your claims here. You undoubtedly don't really know how to back it up.

Perhaps a explanation of eternity is that the beggning and the end are one and the same.

That would be the exact opposite of eternity.

[benchwarmer]

I also believe that an actual infinite cannot exist. Like, i don't really know how to back it up, but it just seems like it.

Perhaps a explanation of eternity is that the beggning and the end are one and the same.

It's easy to prove an actual infinite does exist regardless of your feelings.

Place two objects in front of you that are separated by some distance (doesn't matter what it is). Now, take out a piece of paper and write down 1/2 the distance between them. Repeat the following until you reach 0.

1) Take half the distance of the number above.
2) Write this distance below your last number on your paper.
3) Goto step 1

Maybe you will notice a problem. It is not possible to divide a number other than 0 by 2 and arrive at 0.

There you have it, an infinite series of numbers, each half the size of the previous one. How are you feeling about it now

[mgb]

Do a search for Georg Cantor and Aleph Null.
Cantor defined infinity as the set of all natural numbers. The 'amount' of numbers in this set - its cardinal number - is Aleph Null.
This is the first infinity. The next infinity is Aleph One.
And there is an infinity of cardinal numbers.
Basically what he is saying is that infinity is not a number it is the set of all numbers.
Eternity is all of time.

[TSGracchus]

[Replying to post 48 by mgb]

mgb: "Eternity is all of time."

Eternity, like nothing, does not exist. Time is a minimum distance between points, a magnitude always greater than zero. If "s" is distance and "t" is time then t = s/c, where "c" is equal to the speed of light in a vacuum. Whether we see that distance as time or as a spatial distance depends on the frame of reference. And since the universe is expanding, we perceive that time is relative to the gravitational field or acceleration.

So, eternity is not "all of time" any more the infinity is all of distance. It is really kind of hard to explain without referencing point-set topology and multi-dimensional differentiable sub-space manifolds.

[marco]

Perhaps a explanation of eternity is that the beggning and the end are one and the same.

That would be the exact opposite of eternity.

But it's an interesting observation. If we examine the speed of a particle travelling round the Earth the time between departure and arrival decreases as the speed increases until eventually it appears the particle hasn't moved; so as speed tends to infinity, beginning and end of journey are one, as is suggested here.

The interesting example given by Benchwarmer of constantly halving a distance and never reachng zero is of course an illustration of sum to infinity. We can make an infinite sequence, where successive terms are halved, sum to whatever we like; all we need do is ensure that our first term is half of what we want the sum to be. If 666 is the magical sum, we start with 333 and Bob is one's proverbial uncle.

The link between infinity and circularity might well be a key to explaing existence.We are hurrying either to our end or to our beginning. The poet T.S. Eliot says: "In my end is my beginning." Poets often hit on a truth.