Is there something that isn't metaphysically possible?
Metaphysically speaking, couldn't all possible gods exist?
Metaphysically speaking, don't all possible gods exist?
Metaphysically speaking, all gods are believable.
Right?
Can any of this be proven incorrect?
Metaphysical proof
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Divine Insight
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Re: Metaphysical proof
Post #31[Replying to post 30 by Mr.Badham]
I think you are misunderstanding what I meant. I'm not suggesting anything that is impossible. I'm simply pointing out that unless something can be shown to be physical it's then "metaphysical".
My example with simple geometry was probably too simple, especially considering that there may actually exist places within our universe where "abstract mathematics" can actually exist physically.
My point is that there are many things in mathematics that cannot exist in our universe yet they can be proven to be logically consistent. Does that make mathematics itself "metaphysical"? And, if so, then clearly we can prove things about metaphysical objects (i.e. mathematical objects that cannot exist in our universe).
In fact, the most basic Euclidean geometric figures cannot exist in our universe. There cannot be any such thing as a "perfect circle" in our universe. Yet mathematics can certainly be used to describe one.
So all I'm saying it that mathematics itself proves things about metaphysical (i.e. abstract mathematical) objects.
I think the same thing should apply to any and all metaphysical philosophies.
You mention:
You were totally missing my point there. I never suggested that you could actually move the earth into a black hole. I simply stated that mathematics would describe what would happen to the earth if you did. And that assumes that the earth held together and didn't spaghettify. <- a term used by astrophysicists.
But the point I was making is that mathematics can actually describe many more abstract situations that for all intents and purposes could never actually occur within our universe. In fact, it's actually quite easy to write down valid mathematical equations that could never occur in our universe.
In fact, just look at what String Theorists are proposing. They claim that String Theory can describe an extremely large number of universes that are quite different from our own. And they claim that this is all valid mathematics. They have even proposed that all these other universe may actually exist.
So is String Theory "Metaphysics"? Some physicists say that it is. Yet they have mathematical proofs that all these things are logically sound. So if String Theory is metaphysics then we can prove things about metaphysical things.
That's all I'm saying.
I can't disprove the existence of Zeus for this very reason. Zeus breaks no rules of logic.
Yahweh on the other hand does. Yahweh is a mountain of self-contradictions. So even as a metaphysical entity he can be proven to fail.
I think you are misunderstanding what I meant. I'm not suggesting anything that is impossible. I'm simply pointing out that unless something can be shown to be physical it's then "metaphysical".
My example with simple geometry was probably too simple, especially considering that there may actually exist places within our universe where "abstract mathematics" can actually exist physically.
My point is that there are many things in mathematics that cannot exist in our universe yet they can be proven to be logically consistent. Does that make mathematics itself "metaphysical"? And, if so, then clearly we can prove things about metaphysical objects (i.e. mathematical objects that cannot exist in our universe).
In fact, the most basic Euclidean geometric figures cannot exist in our universe. There cannot be any such thing as a "perfect circle" in our universe. Yet mathematics can certainly be used to describe one.
So all I'm saying it that mathematics itself proves things about metaphysical (i.e. abstract mathematical) objects.
I think the same thing should apply to any and all metaphysical philosophies.
You mention:
We can't say that a virgin birth is not possible within our universe. At best, all we can say is that we see no rational mechanism to make it occur."In a universe where virgin birth is possible....."
Walking on water is very possible in our universe. All you need is a light enough person or dense enough water. And the density of water can be affected by what else might be in the water."In a universe where walking on water is possible..."
"In a universe where your planet now exists on the Event Horizon of a black hole..."
You were totally missing my point there. I never suggested that you could actually move the earth into a black hole. I simply stated that mathematics would describe what would happen to the earth if you did. And that assumes that the earth held together and didn't spaghettify. <- a term used by astrophysicists.
But the point I was making is that mathematics can actually describe many more abstract situations that for all intents and purposes could never actually occur within our universe. In fact, it's actually quite easy to write down valid mathematical equations that could never occur in our universe.
In fact, just look at what String Theorists are proposing. They claim that String Theory can describe an extremely large number of universes that are quite different from our own. And they claim that this is all valid mathematics. They have even proposed that all these other universe may actually exist.
So is String Theory "Metaphysics"? Some physicists say that it is. Yet they have mathematical proofs that all these things are logically sound. So if String Theory is metaphysics then we can prove things about metaphysical things.
That's all I'm saying.
I can't disprove the existence of Zeus for this very reason. Zeus breaks no rules of logic.
Yahweh on the other hand does. Yahweh is a mountain of self-contradictions. So even as a metaphysical entity he can be proven to fail.
[center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
Re: Metaphysical proof
Post #321+1=2 MetaphysicsDivine Insight wrote: [Replying to post 30 by Mr.Badham]
I think you are misunderstanding what I meant. I'm not suggesting anything that is impossible. I'm simply pointing out that unless something can be shown to be physical it's then "metaphysical".
My example with simple geometry was probably too simple, especially considering that there may actually exist places within our universe where "abstract mathematics" can actually exist physically.
My point is that there are many things in mathematics that cannot exist in our universe yet they can be proven to be logically consistent. Does that make mathematics itself "metaphysical"? And, if so, then clearly we can prove things about metaphysical objects (i.e. mathematical objects that cannot exist in our universe).
In fact, the most basic Euclidean geometric figures cannot exist in our universe. There cannot be any such thing as a "perfect circle" in our universe. Yet mathematics can certainly be used to describe one.
So all I'm saying it that mathematics itself proves things about metaphysical (i.e. abstract mathematical) objects.
I think the same thing should apply to any and all metaphysical philosophies.
You mention:
We can't say that a virgin birth is not possible within our universe. At best, all we can say is that we see no rational mechanism to make it occur."In a universe where virgin birth is possible....."
Walking on water is very possible in our universe. All you need is a light enough person or dense enough water. And the density of water can be affected by what else might be in the water."In a universe where walking on water is possible..."
"In a universe where your planet now exists on the Event Horizon of a black hole..."
You were totally missing my point there. I never suggested that you could actually move the earth into a black hole. I simply stated that mathematics would describe what would happen to the earth if you did. And that assumes that the earth held together and didn't spaghettify. <- a term used by astrophysicists.
But the point I was making is that mathematics can actually describe many more abstract situations that for all intents and purposes could never actually occur within our universe. In fact, it's actually quite easy to write down valid mathematical equations that could never occur in our universe.
In fact, just look at what String Theorists are proposing. They claim that String Theory can describe an extremely large number of universes that are quite different from our own. And they claim that this is all valid mathematics. They have even proposed that all these other universe may actually exist.
So is String Theory "Metaphysics"? Some physicists say that it is. Yet they have mathematical proofs that all these things are logically sound. So if String Theory is metaphysics then we can prove things about metaphysical things.
That's all I'm saying.
I can't disprove the existence of Zeus for this very reason. Zeus breaks no rules of logic.
Yahweh on the other hand does. Yahweh is a mountain of self-contradictions. So even as a metaphysical entity he can be proven to fail.
1 apple + 1 apple = 2 apples Mmmm, apples. I will eat those apples and not be hungry any more. Wait, what apples? The apples in the equation. Okay, I will eat them. Where are they? I'm getting so hungry. I want to eat the apples!!!!Where are they? They were right there. I just read about them!!!!!
If there is a form of mathematics that doesn't conform with our universe, than I will reject it!! If there is a form of geography that doesn't match, or a form of art, or a form of philosophy, or medicine, or music.......
Re: Metaphysical proof
Post #33The thing remains = that the Creator God matches up with reality.Mr.Badham wrote: If there is a form of mathematics that doesn't conform with our universe, than I will reject it!! If there is a form of geography that doesn't match, or a form of art, or a form of philosophy, or medicine, or music.......
As such any metaphysical God or Gods can be possible, but there can not be any true concept of no God whether metaphysical or otherwise.
Of course people do it anyway and as such they make their self as disconnected from reality.
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Post #34
Moderator CommentJP Cusick wrote: The thing remains = that the Creator God matches up with reality.
As such any metaphysical God or Gods can be possible, but there can not be any true concept of no God whether metaphysical or otherwise.
Of course people do it anyway and as such they make their self as disconnected from reality.
Statement of a personal opinion is not evidence. Please see:
viewtopic.php?t=16903
Please review the Rules.
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