Religion v Ethics

[Wootah]

It is said that religion is the opiate of the masses.

How does ethics avoid a similar attack?

[Bust Nak]

That is the one big complaint against Atheism that it has no moral or ethical standards, and so it also gives people a justification to be immoral and unethical.

Big complaint? That's a compliment surely. Atheism has no moral or ethical standards, and yet atheists live a higher standard.

When one does not know God (Atheism) then they do not have the over ruling authority to demand more from us, and to demand that we be true to the higher power.

What authority do we need to demand more from you?

I appreciate if Atheism people believe in some ethics and it makes me happy, yet, why they believe in Ethics? They don't have to. Right, please?

We don't have to, we do it because we want to.

Since we have so many from the Atheism and the like here, I request if they could express the codex of their Ethics and Morality, if any. Right, please?

There isn't any codex of ethics and morality for atheism.

[Bust Nak]

What i was trying to get at was that people accusing religion as being a drug that pacifies the masses so that the rich stay rich and the poor have religion to comfort them.

However many atheists still believe in ethics. Ethics being the system of values they live by. And so I wonder whether an ethical atheist is elusional as well and opiating themselves.

Religion can pacify people who would otherwise be complaining or worse, partake in rebellion, or otherwise make life harder for those in power.

I don't see how ethics is analogous.

[JP Cusick]

That is the one big complaint against Atheism that it has no moral or ethical standards, and so it also gives people a justification to be immoral and unethical.

Big complaint? That's a compliment surely. Atheism has no moral or ethical standards, and yet atheists live a higher standard.

It is not right to view "immoral and unethical" as being the higher standards of Atheism.

Of course when people steal then they view that as a higher standard because they see profit in the stolen stuff.

A person cheats to win - then they see that win as being their higher standard.

Telling lies is another view of "living a higher standard" where the Liars are not caught by the truth.

Only Atheism can make the claim that to lie and cheat and steal is a way to live better - no kind of religion will allow for any of that.

[Bust Nak]

It is not right to view "immoral and unethical" as being the higher standards of Atheism.

That's no standard of atheism at all, but that's moot since it is right to view being moral and ethical as the higher standards.

Of course when people steal then they view that as a higher standard because they see profit in the stolen stuff.

A person cheats to win - then they see that win as being their higher standard.

Telling lies is another view of "living a higher standard" where the Liars are not caught by the truth.

Of course. Tell that to the thieves, cheats and liars.

Only Atheism can make the claim that to lie and cheat and steal is a way to live better - no kind of religion will allow for any of that.

Incorrect. Theism can also make the claim that to lie and cheat and steal is a way to live better. More importantly atheism does not make the claim that to lie and cheat and steal is a way to live better.

[William]

[Replying to post 44 by Bust Nak]

Incorrect. Theism can also make the claim that to lie and cheat and steal is a way to live better. More importantly atheism does not make the claim that to lie and cheat and steal is a way to live better.

I don't think either position makes the claim.

If people can only be sorted into those two categories, then something else is involved which is brought into those positions.

Point being, there are unethical 'atheists' and 'theists'.

I have seen it said that some types of theism justifies their positions (and even subsequent behavior) based upon the ethics of its idea of GOD, and some types of atheism see those ideas of GOD as being unethical.

Some people don't need unethical ideas of GOD in order to justify their unethical behavior.

[JP Cusick]

Some people don't need unethical ideas of GOD in order to justify their unethical behavior.

I do believe the point was and remains that some people deny the reality of God in order to justify their immoralities and their unethical life style and choices.

The concept of God has always been a stopgap for any of that.

[William]

[Replying to post 46 by JP Cusick]

Be that as it may, the point also is that some ideas of GOD have been used to promote unethical behavior.

[Bust Nak]

I don't think either position makes the claim.

I am just playing off his words, he said can make the claim, instead of does make the claim.

Some people don't need unethical ideas of GOD in order to justify their unethical behavior.

Granted. But the problem is, far more people justify their unethical behavior with unethical ideas of GOD, than there are people who need ethical ideas of GOD in order to justify their ethical behavior. It's a net loss.

[JP Cusick]

Be that as it may, the point also is that some ideas of GOD have been used to promote unethical behavior.

I see that as a misguided perspective.

The ideas of God has been around forever, and as such every evil doer has to find some way to deny God or to circumvent God or twist God as being on their side, and the reason is that God has always been an interference and an obstacle to those doing wrong, or as the Bible says = a stumbling block, see 1 Peter 2:6-8

So too the Atheist have to get past that barrier of having the God telling them right from wrong, and that is the one big point of Atheism - to remove God as the obstacle to their conceit and to their immoralities.

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 49 by JP Cusick]

The problem with your idea is obvious, theists on average, are not any more moral than atheists.