There are all sort of questionable statistics about how often people lie. My take is that people embellish considerably more often than sticking to simple accurate truth. Besides from blatant lies there are the inaccuracies. Maybe most inaccuracies are insignificant or not so significant to undermine a more fundamental truth, or maybe they mount up to more.
I would argue the world is a far more ambiguous, equivocal, uncertain and mythical place full of personal and group propaganda than most people are able to accept. Here I am thinking of close bonds and ties to people we trust, along with the media, politics, economics, government, public relations, national histories, advertising etcetera. In essence a large part of our lives is a fiction. Perhaps this view is the natural extension of accepting human are preconditioned to be social beings more ready to fit with family and tribe and have a weaker predisposition to tell the truth. Perhaps it is informed by personal experience. Maybe it is cynicism. Maybe it is aiming for reality based thinking.
So how rare is truth? How much of life is a fiction?
How rare is truth?
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- Furrowed Brow
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Re: How rare is truth?
Post #2[Replying to Furrowed Brow]
Truth isn’t as rare as we might think. But, it would depend upon the individual, group and their speech, as well as, their writings. We would also need to consider the definition of truth and is it actually true! This is probably the most difficult to discern. Such as, who decides what truth is and can “they� be trusted to give us the proper understanding?
When we consider the secular, their definition of truth is what’s provable. However, it is somewhat the opposite for the religious. So, do we pick one side or the other and make a stand? The problem is that this approach may not bring “either side� any closer to the real truth than what we have today. This is a reality, because of the conflict between the two. Which, shows weaknesses on both sides!
It is my opinion that secular truth and most of the truths accepted by the religions are from man. However, the position of many of the religious points to a higher authority, where the seculars do not.
So, if we can’t actually find real truth through man, where do we go? It would seem that we must try to seek a higher authority for the true definition of what truth is.
Now, but I realize this is bias (on my part), but what other options do we have?
So how rare is truth?
Truth isn’t as rare as we might think. But, it would depend upon the individual, group and their speech, as well as, their writings. We would also need to consider the definition of truth and is it actually true! This is probably the most difficult to discern. Such as, who decides what truth is and can “they� be trusted to give us the proper understanding?
When we consider the secular, their definition of truth is what’s provable. However, it is somewhat the opposite for the religious. So, do we pick one side or the other and make a stand? The problem is that this approach may not bring “either side� any closer to the real truth than what we have today. This is a reality, because of the conflict between the two. Which, shows weaknesses on both sides!
It is my opinion that secular truth and most of the truths accepted by the religions are from man. However, the position of many of the religious points to a higher authority, where the seculars do not.
So, if we can’t actually find real truth through man, where do we go? It would seem that we must try to seek a higher authority for the true definition of what truth is.
Now, but I realize this is bias (on my part), but what other options do we have?
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Re: How rare is truth?
Post #3[Replying to post 1 by Furrowed Brow]
Truth isn't particularly rare, but knowing it certainly is. Reading books like Willful Blindness and the Invisible Gorilla and we see just how much we miss. The very fact that every person on the planet comes to differing "opinions" about things just proves how little we know. Gun control, for example can help fight gun violence or not. It is a fact one way or the other. We don't "know" which is true but many have beliefs about it and hold quite strongly to it. Take the infinite other conundrums and divvy them out and you'll have a population of people. Nobody agrees about everything. With our limited ability to take in information, there simply is no obtaining a complete picture of the entire world. We're better off getting a decent picture of a small part of reality than trying to understand absolute truth of the entirety of reality.
Truth isn't particularly rare, but knowing it certainly is. Reading books like Willful Blindness and the Invisible Gorilla and we see just how much we miss. The very fact that every person on the planet comes to differing "opinions" about things just proves how little we know. Gun control, for example can help fight gun violence or not. It is a fact one way or the other. We don't "know" which is true but many have beliefs about it and hold quite strongly to it. Take the infinite other conundrums and divvy them out and you'll have a population of people. Nobody agrees about everything. With our limited ability to take in information, there simply is no obtaining a complete picture of the entire world. We're better off getting a decent picture of a small part of reality than trying to understand absolute truth of the entirety of reality.
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Re: How rare is truth?
Post #4I don't find this to be the case in my life. I wonder what exactly you mean by this. Are you talking about human relationships? Is so, then the reason this probably doesn't apply to me is because I live my life as a hermit as much as possible.Furrowed Brow wrote: In essence a large part of our lives is a fiction.[/b]
However, I don't find the information I deal with in business and with the government to be fictional. So far my dealings with business and government have always turned out to be precisely as claimed. This doesn't mean that's it's always good, but at least the claims were true.
Of course I don't buy many products on a whim due to advertisements. I'm quite sure that many advertisements are indeed untruthful. I never fell for that sort of thing. I expect many advertisements to be filled with misleading information, and sometimes outright lies.
However, just recently I bought a tire-changing machine from Harbor Freight for $39. They advertised it as being "rugged". I laughed that off as I certainly didn't expect to get a "rugged" tire-changing machine for $39. I totally expected that I would need to beef it up by welding on extra supports, etc. I was even worried that it might be so flimsy that it wouldn't even be worth beefing up.
But to my utter shock and amazement the thing actually turned out to be quite sturdy. I bought it home, set it up, and changed 8 full-size 15" Ford Pick-up Truck tires with it and it worked absolutely beautifully. No problems at all. Very sturdy indeed.
I was shocked that I could buy such a decent machine for only $39. I almost ran back over to buy a second one just because I was so pleased with it! But then I realized how stupid that would be because I only need one and this one looks like it's going to last forever.
So SURPRISE SURPRISE! It really is a sturdy tire changing machine. The ad was TRUE!
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Re: How rare is truth?
Post #5[Replying to post 1 by Furrowed Brow]
Judging by current top US politicians, lies are 90% of reality with a 90% degree of confidence. Truth is about 10% of reality with a 50% degree of confidence.
I am sure one could draw up a complete table in this format for journalists, bloggers, real estate agents, used car salesmen, CEOs of fortune 500 companies, defense lawyers, public relations consultants, etc. And it might be instructive to do so, with empirical evidence to back the allegations up.
But I have other projects, currently, and cannot commit the time and resource to the enterprise. It would be a considerable service to humanity if someone else could pick up this baton.
Best wishes, 2RM.
Judging by current top US politicians, lies are 90% of reality with a 90% degree of confidence. Truth is about 10% of reality with a 50% degree of confidence.
I am sure one could draw up a complete table in this format for journalists, bloggers, real estate agents, used car salesmen, CEOs of fortune 500 companies, defense lawyers, public relations consultants, etc. And it might be instructive to do so, with empirical evidence to back the allegations up.
But I have other projects, currently, and cannot commit the time and resource to the enterprise. It would be a considerable service to humanity if someone else could pick up this baton.
Best wishes, 2RM.
Non omnes qui errant pereunt
Not all who wander are lost
Not all who wander are lost
Post #6
I agree....people embellish considerably more often than sticking to simple accurate truth. I would argue the world is a far more ambiguous, equivocal, uncertain and mythical place full of personal and group propaganda than most people are able to accept.
Maybe it is cynicism. Maybe it is aiming for reality based thinking.
Again, agree. I say this because I tend to be a cynic too--but believe my cynicism also has some strongly realistic ties to reality.
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So how rare is truth? How much of life is a fiction?