Devil vs God

[Wootah]

The devil said, "Mercy is for the weak."

God replied, "Mercy is for the weak."

2 ways to live.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 10 by Clownboat]

What forms of weak are there?

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 10 by Clownboat]

What forms of weak are there?

The two I mentioned were physical and mental. There could be more forms, which is why I have asked you which one you are talking about here..

[Wootah]

The devil said, "Mercy is for the weak."

God replied, "Mercy is for the weak."

2 ways to live.

Which form of 'weak' are you specifically?
(Don't feel obligated to answer if this is uncomfortable obviously).

I understand the self loathing that comes with believing your are born a sinner deserving eternal torture, but must a person also be 'weak' according to this theology?

Also, is it a physical weakness or a mental weakness being addressed?

Let's go for both. Does that affect anything?

[Clownboat]

The devil said, "Mercy is for the weak."

God replied, "Mercy is for the weak."

2 ways to live.

Which form of 'weak' are you specifically?
(Don't feel obligated to answer if this is uncomfortable obviously).

I understand the self loathing that comes with believing your are born a sinner deserving eternal torture, but must a person also be 'weak' according to this theology?

Also, is it a physical weakness or a mental weakness being addressed?

Let's go for both. Does that affect anything?

Very much so!

This seems to sum it up now if you want to be a Christian and obtain mercy.
You must believe you are born deserving hell. The self loathing I referred to.
You must be (or it helps) to be physically weak.
You must be (or it helps) to be mentally weak.

Now, why would being physically and mentally weak be a condition needed for a god to give mercy? Are those of us that are not mentally or physically weak not deserving of mercy? Seems nonsensical doesn't it?

[Wootah]

This seems to sum it up now if you want to be a Christian and obtain mercy.
You must believe you are born deserving hell. The self loathing I referred to.
You must be (or it helps) to be physically weak.
You must be (or it helps) to be mentally weak.

Now, why would being physically and mentally weak be a condition needed for a god to give mercy? Are those of us that are not mentally or physically weak not deserving of mercy? Seems nonsensical doesn't it?

Do you regard weakness as a negative?

Well I certainly think my OP and your post highlights the two sides of the coin nature of things. Or we are both looking at the same glass of milk and deciding if the glass half full or half empty to you.

All my preChristian life weakness was a negative and now as I follow Christ I find myself seeing my weakness as a positive.

Here is one practical example. I regard myself as a good driver but I reversed into a wall recently and in hindsight I realised it was my arrogance that caused the accident because I could have easily asked someone to help guide me when I was parking.

Now I've never thought people are born for heaven or hell. This must be how the glass looks to you. When i was an atheist i thought that way because it was a cheap mental shortcut to allow me to judge others.

Nor am i particularly self loathing. I just realise I am getting older abd that's reality. Self hatred seems to me these days more aligned to those who think they don't need help. How much does one have to hate themselves to think they don't need other people?

I think lack of self awareness is one of the greatest dangers to
society and individuals.

Seems nonsensical doesn't it.

[Clownboat]

This seems to sum it up now if you want to be a Christian and obtain mercy.
You must believe you are born deserving hell. The self loathing I referred to.
You must be (or it helps) to be physically weak.
You must be (or it helps) to be mentally weak.

Now, why would being physically and mentally weak be a condition needed for a god to give mercy? Are those of us that are not mentally or physically weak not deserving of mercy? Seems nonsensical doesn't it?

Do you regard weakness as a negative?

Depends on what is weak.
Being mentally weak for example would be a negative IMO. Being mentally weak would not be something I would strive for.

Well I certainly think my OP and your post highlights the two sides of the coin nature of things. Or we are both looking at the same glass of milk and deciding if the glass half full or half empty to you.

I don't know how you are arriving at this conclusion since I broke down your argument and then ask why being weak would be a condition for receiving mercy from a god concept. You took the time to write this post, but failed to address the questions posed to you... specifically as to why being weak would be a requirement for mercy from a god.

All my preChristian life weakness was a negative and now as I follow Christ I find myself seeing my weakness as a positive.

This is not a suprise.
Most Christians I know feel like worthless sinners if it were not for Jesus.

Here is one practical example. I regard myself as a good driver but I reversed into a wall recently and in hindsight I realised it was my arrogance that caused the accident because I could have easily asked someone to help guide me when I was parking.

Arrogence is not being discussed. Being physically and/or mentally weak in order to get mercy from a god concept is.

Now I've never thought people are born for heaven or hell. This must be how the glass looks to you.

Nope, but also not relavent.

When i was an atheist i thought that way because it was a cheap mental shortcut to allow me to judge others.

I'm not an atheist and I am not your enemy. Your projection is off base.

Nor am i particularly self loathing.

So you are self loathing, just not particularly... Like I have noted, self loathing seems to be a mechanism built in to your preferred belief system. Makes sense to me as who would buy the medicine without first being convinced that they are sick.

I just realise I am getting older abd that's reality.

Off topic.

Self hatred seems to me these days more aligned to those who think they don't need help.

Not sure what your opinion of self hatred has to do with needing to be weak to obtain mercy from a god concept.

How much does one have to hate themselves to think they don't need other people?

I don't see how one follows from the other. This also seems very off topic.

I think lack of self awareness is one of the greatest dangers to
society and individuals.

I think crayons taste terrible.

Seems nonsensical doesn't it.

What, that you think a lack of self awareness is a great danger?
Why would I care what you think about a lack of self awareness (asking sincerely, not like a smart butt as it probably reads)?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 16 by Clownboat]

Depends on what is weak. Being mentally weak for example would be a negative IMO. Being mentally weak would not be something I would strive for.

I don't know how you are arriving at this conclusion since I broke down your argument and then ask why being weak would be a condition for receiving mercy from a god concept. You took the time to write this post, but failed to address the questions posed to you... specifically as to why being weak would be a requirement for mercy from a god.

Of course I am a fan of mental or physical strength but the question is whether we are strong enough. Admitting limitations is what I am talking about and what I think God is seeking from people who might repent and believe. No one is suggesting one strive for weakness. Actually I think in our striving we discover our weaknesses far more readily than people that never strive and so never discover their limitations.

This is not a suprise. Most Christians I know feel like worthless sinners if it were not for Jesus.

Invite them to come to this forum and I'll talk to them about it. Most atheists I know (and I do invite them here) feel like worthless random molecules, existing for the briefest of time to be snuffed out. From their worldview I think they are correct.

Arrogence is not being discussed. Being physically and/or mentally weak in order to get mercy from a god concept is.

I don't think that God needs you to be weak, I think we should be able to understand we are weak/limited. My original post did not imply this and your taking this line of discussion is how I came to realise we are seeing two sides of the same coin. I invite you to see my side.

I'm not an atheist and I am not your enemy. Your projection is off base.

Glad to hear it. Who said you were my enemy?

Getting old is not off topic. It's a process that will remind each of us of how weak and dependant we are.

Not is it off topic for me to raise the issue of self hatred inherent in not thinking of oneself as weak, especially when you regard thinking of oneself as weak as self loathing. By off topic do you mean you find my post has uncomfortable truths?

I think we are piece by piece working out that thinking of one self as not weak is a form of self hatred and a potential source of self and societal harm.

[ttruscott]

The devil said, "Mercy is for the weak."

God replied, "Mercy is for the weak."

2 ways to live.

Curious that the devil and God sing the same song.

Is it the case that some subtlety of grammar is all that divides the devil and the Almighty?

The difference is not in the grammar but in the intonation from the attitude of the speaker.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 16 by Clownboat]

Depends on what is weak. Being mentally weak for example would be a negative IMO. Being mentally weak would not be something I would strive for.

I don't know how you are arriving at this conclusion since I broke down your argument and then ask why being weak would be a condition for receiving mercy from a god concept. You took the time to write this post, but failed to address the questions posed to you... specifically as to why being weak would be a requirement for mercy from a god.

Of course I am a fan of mental or physical strength but the question is whether we are strong enough.

The OP did not relay this question very well then:
"The devil said, "Mercy is for the weak."
"God replied, "Mercy is for the weak."

This weakness being a condition for mercy is what I have been asking about, not whether we are strong enough.

Admitting limitations is what I am talking about and what I think God is seeking from people who might repent and believe. No one is suggesting one strive for weakness. Actually I think in our striving we discover our weaknesses far more readily than people that never strive and so never discover their limitations.

What if a person desires mercy from your god? Would they not strive for weakness in order to obtain it?

This is not a suprise. Most Christians I know feel like worthless sinners if it were not for Jesus.

Invite them to come to this forum and I'll talk to them about it.

They have no need from you. They have Jesus.

Most atheists I know (and I do invite them here) feel like worthless random molecules, existing for the briefest of time to be snuffed out. From their worldview I think they are correct.

This is not my experience and I assume you are just projecting. No way to know for sure of though.

Arrogence is not being discussed. Being physically and/or mentally weak in order to get mercy from a god concept is.

I don't think that God needs you to be weak,

The OP lists being weak as a way to receive mercy from that god concept.
It is a way to receive mercy it seems.

I think we should be able to understand we are weak/limited.

Irrelevant as most people are probably already aware of their weaknesses.

My original post did not imply this and your taking this line of discussion is how I came to realise we are seeing two sides of the same coin. I invite you to see my side.

I'm trying, but when I ask you direct questions, you are seeming to dance around them and instead you are telling me your opinion on matters such as how you think we should be able to understand we are weak. This idea of understanding that we are weak is not in contention.

Getting old is not off topic. It's a process that will remind each of us of how weak and dependant we are.

I believe you are projecting again.
I am not as physically strong as I once was, but I have aquired knowledge and wisdom throughout my years that have made me less mentally weak. I suggest you go to church if you need reminders about how weak, helpless and evil you are.

Not is it off topic for me to raise the issue of self hatred inherent in not thinking of oneself as weak, especially when you regard thinking of oneself as weak as self loathing. By off topic do you mean you find my post has uncomfortable truths?

This is what I mean by you being off topic.
"Why is being weak a condition from your god concept in order to obtain mercy?"
Can you explain how your words above address why "mercy is for the weak"?

I think we are piece by piece working out that thinking of one self as not weak is a form of self hatred and a potential source of self and societal harm.

How is not considering yourself to be weak a form of self hatred? Nevermind actually, as such a question probably belongs in a post that is discussing such things.

Back to the OP. Why is "mercy for the weak" when it comes to your god? Does the smartest or the strongest person on this planet not deserve mercy? It seems like that might be the case, but so far your position is unclear.