Is vice selfishness? Is virtue selflessness?

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2ndRateMind
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Is vice selfishness? Is virtue selflessness?

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Post by 2ndRateMind »

Or, to put it the other way around:
  • Is selfishness vice?
    Is selflessness virtue?
And what do virtue and vice have to do with sanctity and sin, anyway?

Best wishes, 2RM.
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Re: Is vice selfishness? Is virtue selflessness?

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Post by 2ndRateMind »

[Replying to post 1 by 2ndRateMind]

So, I've been discussing this with the Mormons. They are very useful, because they and I disagree widely and deeply on most things, but they do like to put their view and argue for for it. Anyway, with their help, I have arrived at the following account:

Here, I would like to suggest, not a 'sentencing matrix' as such, or even a 'rewarding matrix', but a plausible line of thought that might lead to them.

Firstly, we need to distinguish between intentions and outcomes. So far as I can make out, academic philosophy in this area (ethics) is concerned pretty much exclusively with outcomes. There are are three main threads of enquiry:

Deontology. What is moral is objective, the 'Will of God', the 'Natural Law', as determined (in Kant) by reason and as observed out of duty. Human happiness (the outcome) depends on compliance.
Utilitarianism. What is moral is those actions and rules conducive to the greatest well-being of the greatest number. (the outcome).
Virtue Ethics. What is moral is those (inevitably virtuous) actions conducive to eudaimonia, the flourishing or thriving of the individual, (the outcome) and therefore, in aggregate, the state, and the world.

The problem with all these approaches, or so it seems to me, is that the world is a complex, complicated, connected, integrated thing, and that outcomes are not that predictable. The law of unintended consequences always applies, and for which we cannot justly be held accountable. Which is not to say outcomes are irrelevant to the moral calculus, only that they are problematic.

Intentions, however, are entirely under our own control. We can choose between selfish and selfless intentions. (Try it; you can intend to give an extra $5.00 per month to the charity of your choice).

Then we need to consider power. (Be that social, economic, or political power). Both good and bad intentions are multiplied by the power an individual has. Thus Adolf Hitler's impact on humanity was pretty severe, while Oswald Mosley's was pretty marginal. But if intention*power is approximately = to outcome, we have a rudimentary formula to work with.

So there we have it; it is the selfish or selflessness of our intentions that determines our direction towards sin or sanctity, and here lies the skeleton outline of a theory of good and evil, virtue and vice, the moral and immoral, and their degrees, according to my 2ndRateMind.

If you have any comments to make, I would be most interested.

Best wishes, 2RM.
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Re: Is vice selfishness? Is virtue selflessness?

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Post by marco »

2ndRateMind wrote:

So there we have it; it is the selfish or selflessness of our intentions that determines our direction towards sin or sanctity, and here lies the skeleton outline of a theory of good and evil, virtue and vice, the moral and immoral, and their degrees, according to my 2ndRateMind.
They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. For example, we may send millions in response to some tragedy, famine or water shortage somewhere in Africa and from the money people in power there buy weapons and warplanes. Should we have withheld our donations; are we partly responsible for teh civil wars that ensue?

It is hard to describe an intention as virtuous when its result brings slaughter.

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Re: Is vice selfishness? Is virtue selflessness?

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Post by William »

2ndRateMind: So there we have it; it is the selfish or selflessness of our intentions that determines our direction towards sin or sanctity, and here lies the skeleton outline of a theory of good and evil, virtue and vice, the moral and immoral, and their degrees, according to my 2ndRateMind.

marco: They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. For example, we may send millions in response to some tragedy, famine or water shortage somewhere in Africa and from the money people in power there buy weapons and warplanes. Should we have withheld our donations; are we partly responsible for teh civil wars that ensue?

It is hard to describe an intention as virtuous when its result brings slaughter.



William: Hindsight is wonderful evidence. Any intention coming from systems of disparity are already corrupted by the intentions of said systems.
Some accept this in the rational thinking that "No system is perfect" so in that, are the issues of ethics even necessary to table?
Essentially if money is raised through charitable branches of those systems, and the makers/investors of weaponry get the bulk of that funding, under the "No system is perfect" reasoning, what is the problem?
Perhaps the funds from the sales of said weapons are going toward supporting some greater cause?

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