Ethics: Whats the point?

[2ndRateMind]

So, what is the point of ethics? Why shouldn't we all live greedy, selfish lives and let the devil take the hindmost?

I would argue there are three main reasons to be ethical:

• 1) An ethical society is a better society to live in.
  2) An ethical person is a happier, more fulfilled person.
  3) An ethical person is 'saved', in the religious sense of salvation.

It does strike me though, that we need to sort out amongst ourselves the point of being ethical, even before we attempt to discuss what ethical behaviour might be. Though each informs the other, I think one needs to start out with a transparent agenda.

Any comments, welcome.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[2ndRateMind]

Uh huh. But I would argue that we feel our own pains and fears and insecurities more readily and proximately than those of others. Thus there needs to be some bridge between how we are, and how others are, and that can only be provided by universal and unconditional love.

People live with local love and local interests.

Speak for yourself.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[marco]

Uh huh. But I would argue that we feel our own pains and fears and insecurities more readily and proximately than those of others. Thus there needs to be some bridge between how we are, and how others are, and that can only be provided by universal and unconditional love.

People live with local love and local interests.

Speak for yourself.

I thought I was making a valid generalisation. I have never met anyone whose love extends universally though I suppose there are those who might entertain such ambitions. We experience love for mum and dad, family and friends and I suppose we can imagine loving somebody in the Amazon rain forests.

To be fair I quite like the dead poet Wilfred Owen, though, since he died in 1918, I never had the opportunity to have the love repprocated. I think affection is usually local, except through imagination and wishful thinking.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 12 by marco]

It may indeed be the case that most people love most those they are most proximate to, but the Christian ideal is to love one's neighbour as oneself. And one's neighbour includes everyone, even those geographically separate, even one's enemies. And I do not think this to be a vain ambition, or Jesus would never have asked it of us.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[marco]

[Replying to post 12 by marco]

It may indeed be the case that most people love most those they are most proximate to, but the Christian ideal is to love one's neighbour as oneself. And one's neighbour includes everyone, even those geographically separate, even one's enemies. And I do not think this to be a vain ambition, or Jesus would never have asked it of us.

Best wishes, 2RM.

I think the idea that we shouldn't harm others because we wouldn't want to be harmed ourselves is a good foundation for a healthy society. A very fine contract separates us from anarchy. In times of trouble we see some great acts of altruism but we also see greed on a grand scale, looting and plundering when cities fall.


Jesus was a character from a past age who never tasted a potato and would have been thrilled and astonished by an aeroplane journey. He was kind but naïve. His suggestion we all be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect is schoolboy silliness but it can be redeemed in the intellectual refineries of clever theologians. As a schoolboy it would never have entered my head to find flaws in Christ's reported sayings, such was the skill of my instructors. Man has slowly emerged from darkness not just by inventing the electric light but by laying down laws that make life comfortable, not just for ourselves, but, in Western society at least, for the animals that Jesus forgot.

[mgb]

The only true basis for morality is the value of life and a moral person is someone who values all life.

[William]

[Replying to post 15 by mgb]

The only true basis for morality is the value of life and a moral person is someone who values all life.

What do you mean by "life" and "Value"?

[mgb]

[Replying to post 15 by mgb]

The only true basis for morality is the value of life and a moral person is someone who values all life.

What do you mean by "life" and "Value"?

Theists understand that life is sacred and this is the basis of morality. Humanists can echo this understanding by seeing that life has value. Do you think that your life is valuable enough to merit respect from others?

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to post 1 by 2ndRateMind]

It seems perfectly proven that the Kantian ethical and moral life is the life of a sane person, one who relates to other people far more just and for best ends into all foreseeable future, toward Utopia.

To be a reliable, sane person is also one who best relates to family life.

Schizophrenia lies down the other path, the downward spiral to monstrosity of a former human being, only the face remaining!

The reasons...

[William]

[Replying to post 15 by mgb]

The only true basis for morality is the value of life and a moral person is someone who values all life.

What do you mean by "life" and "Value"?

Theists understand that life is sacred and this is the basis of morality.

What does that actually mean though, "Life is sacred" you haven't said?

Humanists can echo this understanding by seeing that life has value.

Are you saying that this is what you mean by "Life is sacred"? That life has
"value".

What is meant by that, as far as you understand it?

Do you think that your life is valuable enough to merit respect from others?

I do not judge myself or others based on such assumptions.

Whether others respect me or not is inconsequential to how I see myself.

Peoples theologies 'see' me as many things, most of which are disrespectful in relation to their beliefs. There seems little point in my going along with their beliefs such as they are, because that would only allow for them to have power of influence over my thoughts on WHO I AM. I am 'valued' as inferior through the lens of their beliefs and subsequent estimates. Why would I submit to their proclamation of WHO I AM or what 'value' they 'see' in me and my 'life' according to their beliefs?

[mgb]

What does that actually mean though, "Life is sacred" you haven't said?

Infinitely precious.

Are you saying that this is what you mean by "Life is sacred"? That life has
"value".

Yes.

What is meant by that, as far as you understand it?

When I said "Do you think that your life is valuable enough to merit respect from others?" I meant "Do you think your life is valuable enough for people to understand that they should not harm or kill you?" Do you think your life deserves to be preserved from wilful harm or murder? If you do you value your life. If the value of your life demands that people should not harm you then the same applies to all life.

If the value of your life should be recognized so should the value of all life. This is the basis of morality.