Ethics: Whats the point?

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2ndRateMind
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Ethics: Whats the point?

Post #1

Post by 2ndRateMind »

So, what is the point of ethics? Why shouldn't we all live greedy, selfish lives and let the devil take the hindmost?

I would argue there are three main reasons to be ethical:
  • 1) An ethical society is a better society to live in.
    2) An ethical person is a happier, more fulfilled person.
    3) An ethical person is 'saved', in the religious sense of salvation.
It does strike me though, that we need to sort out amongst ourselves the point of being ethical, even before we attempt to discuss what ethical behaviour might be. Though each informs the other, I think one needs to start out with a transparent agenda.

Any comments, welcome.

Best wishes, 2RM.
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Post #41

Post by William »

[Replying to post 40 by mgb]
So, when at last the harm done is great enough and almost everyone suffers from the affect this will cause, will you still think your choices were ethical - or will you change your mind about that?
If the harm done is so great it will only be because so many unethical things added up.
So are you saying then, that you will no longer think that your choices were ethical?
I am saying that moral choices must be informed choices. We need to consider what is and what is not moral.
Those are two different things in relation to answering the question I asked you, based on your previous statements.

If you are informed that using something causes harm, but you argue that you have no option but to use that something, you have still been informed. You know the consequences of using that thing will contribute to harm.

Yet you argue that this is still morally okay? Because you consider it to be morally okay?
So those who looked on and did nothing are the same as those who know they are contributing to the harm but feel they are forced by circumstance to participate.
So those who looked on and did nothing are the same as those who know they are contributing to the harm but feel they are forced by circumstance to participate.
It depends on whether they could have done something to prevent the violence.
Like what?

Are you saying that you cannot do anything to prevent your contributing to harming the planet, and so are not behaving unethically?

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Post #42

Post by mgb »

William wrote: Are you saying that you cannot do anything to prevent your contributing to harming the planet, and so are not behaving unethically?
Sometimes that seems to be the case. Driving a car is harmful to the environment but it is sometimes necessary.

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Post #43

Post by William »

[Replying to post 42 by mgb]
Are you saying that you cannot do anything to prevent your contributing to harming the planet, and so are not behaving unethically?
Sometimes that seems to be the case. Driving a car is harmful to the environment but it is sometimes necessary.
So millions of humans find it necessary to drive a car, and as a result are altogether contributing to the harm, yet are relatively silent about it, perhaps preferring not to rock the boat and risk losing what they have...and perhaps justifying it through their belief that they are 'being forced' to do something they 'really would rather not do' and thus they are 'not being unethical'?

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Post #44

Post by mgb »

Yes, there are many things we do because we have got ourselves into a mess.

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Post #45

Post by William »

[Replying to post 44 by mgb]
Yes, there are many things we do because we have got ourselves into a mess.
Is there any point in calling them "morals/ethics"?

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Post #46

Post by mgb »

William wrote: [Replying to post 44 by mgb]
Yes, there are many things we do because we have got ourselves into a mess.
Is there any point in calling them "morals/ethics"?
They are not morals they are necessitits.

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Post #47

Post by 2ndRateMind »

mgb wrote:
William wrote: [Replying to post 44 by mgb]
Yes, there are many things we do because we have got ourselves into a mess.
Is there any point in calling them "morals/ethics"?
They are not morals they are necessities.
Perhaps. Or perhaps not. I don't drive, or own a car. I don't fly, or own a plane. I don't cruise, or own a gin-palace yacht. I live in a rented one bedroom flat, which is warm, dry, comfortable, secure and inexpensive. I have you guys, and BBC Radio 4, for company. This year, I hope to launch my own business, and start an Open University degree. My medical needs are taken care of by the NHS. I have enough to eat, and drink, and pay my bills, and am entirely happy with my lot in life. So much for necessities. If my business idea works, I hope to be able to give a little more to those less fortunate than me, support organic food enterprises and environmental good works, and maybe even provide some job opportunities.

What's the point of ethics? To live a good life, well. Or so it seems to me.

Best wishes, 2RM.
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Post #48

Post by mgb »

[quote="2ndRateMind"
What's the point of ethics? To live a good life, well. Or so it seems to me.

Best wishes, 2RM.[/quote]

What if your moral character is tested? To the limit?

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Post #49

Post by Tcg »

2ndRateMind wrote:
I have enough to eat, and drink, and pay my bills, and am entirely happy with my lot in life.

Which of the things that you eat and drink reach you absent transport by a motorized vehicle of some sort?


The fact that you don't own a car doesn't relive you of the need to rely on motorized vehicles of some sort to survive, at least not in the manner in which you currently live.


Forgo all that you have now, relocate to some remote wilderness and live only on what you can catch or gather yourself with no aid from any motorized vehicles and then you'll have something convincing to present. Until then, all you are doing is depending on motorized vehicles owned by others.



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Post #50

Post by 2ndRateMind »

Tcg wrote:
2ndRateMind wrote:
I have enough to eat, and drink, and pay my bills, and am entirely happy with my lot in life.

Which of the things that you eat and drink reach you absent transport by a motorized vehicle of some sort?

The fact that you don't own a car doesn't relive you of the need to rely on motorized vehicles of some sort to survive, at least not in the manner in which you currently live.
Indeed. But my response would be the same argument that supports public, as opposed to private, transport. It is far more efficient, and far less environmentally destructive, per passenger mile travelled, or per ton mile transported.

Tcg wrote:Forgo all that you have now, relocate to some remote wilderness and live only on what you can catch or gather yourself with no aid from any motorized vehicles and then you'll have something convincing to present. Until then, all you are doing is depending on motorized vehicles owned by others.
This is based on the same sort of fallacy that unless you are as poor as the poorest, you have no moral right to call for the alleviation of hunger. The fact is, God's providence is sufficient to support us all, and at a reasonably dignified standard of living, provided we are efficient and effective at distributing that wealth.

Best wishes, 2RM
Last edited by 2ndRateMind on Sat May 18, 2019 5:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
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