The Hare Krishna movement

[Waterfall]

I have just sent some questions to Krishna.com that might be of interest to others:

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Hi

I have a question about the universe and its inhabitants.

As I understand you the soul (when it falls) begins with its own universe, but would that not create many universes with only 1 inhabitant? How do you account for the inhabitants of the universe?

Lets say I fall from the spirituel world today.

Will I then get my own universe? Or will I go to a universe with many inhabitants?

Can you explain things from the beginning?

What happens when a soul falls from the spirituel world?

To better understand my question we could say that 10 souls falls from the spirituel world... now...do we then get 10 universes with 1 inhabitant? Or do we get 1 universe with 10 inhabitants? If it is the latter then who begins as a god (Brahma) and who begins as a human or cow?

[Dimmesdale]

I have just sent some questions to Krishna.com that might be of interest to others:

-----------------

Hi

I have a question about the universe and its inhabitants.

As I understand you the soul (when it falls) begins with its own universe, but would that not create many universes with only 1 inhabitant? How do you account for the inhabitants of the universe?

Lets say I fall from the spirituel world today.

Will I then get my own universe? Or will I go to a universe with many inhabitants?

Can you explain things from the beginning?

What happens when a soul falls from the spirituel world?

To better understand my question we could say that 10 souls falls from the spirituel world... now...do we then get 10 universes with 1 inhabitant? Or do we get 1 universe with 10 inhabitants? If it is the latter then who begins as a god (Brahma) and who begins as a human or cow?

When I was a Gaudiya Vaishnava (Hare Krishna) I too speculated a great deal on these topics. I think devotees would say that, yes, you get your own universe, but the OTHER inhabitants of that universe have their own karmas which have to be worked out and which are, possibly, very old, from time "immemorial" even. They in effect land in the universe of your making, but they themselves used to be Brahmas when THEY fell from Goloka.

A pretty nightmarish soteriology when you think about it. You get to the spiritual world, but you have no assurance you won't come back down to being an ant, a worm or something even worse and stay in that cycle for trillions of years.....

But really if you're looking for logical consistency when it comes to this sect of Hinduism (or most sects of Hinduism) you will not find it. When it comes to the ACTUAL TRUTH, these beliefs are made up as the movement goes along and will NOT give you truth in the full, propositional sense. For that I would say you should turn to Christianity, which offers an actually MEANINGFUL metaphysics and interpretation of the universe, God and YOU.

[Waterfall]

I have just sent some questions to Krishna.com that might be of interest to others:

-----------------

Hi

I have a question about the universe and its inhabitants.

As I understand you the soul (when it falls) begins with its own universe, but would that not create many universes with only 1 inhabitant? How do you account for the inhabitants of the universe?

Lets say I fall from the spirituel world today.

Will I then get my own universe? Or will I go to a universe with many inhabitants?

Can you explain things from the beginning?

What happens when a soul falls from the spirituel world?

To better understand my question we could say that 10 souls falls from the spirituel world... now...do we then get 10 universes with 1 inhabitant? Or do we get 1 universe with 10 inhabitants? If it is the latter then who begins as a god (Brahma) and who begins as a human or cow?

When I was a Gaudiya Vaishnava (Hare Krishna) I too speculated a great deal on these topics. I think devotees would say that, yes, you get your own universe, but the OTHER inhabitants of that universe have their own karmas which have to be worked out and which are, possibly, very old, from time "immemorial" even. They in effect land in the universe of your making, but they themselves used to be Brahmas when THEY fell from Goloka.

A pretty nightmarish soteriology when you think about it. You get to the spiritual world, but you have no assurance you won't come back down to being an ant, a worm or something even worse and stay in that cycle for trillions of years.....

But really if you're looking for logical consistency when it comes to this sect of Hinduism (or most sects of Hinduism) you will not find it. When it comes to the ACTUAL TRUTH, these beliefs are made up as the movement goes along and will NOT give you truth in the full, propositional sense. For that I would say you should turn to Christianity, which offers an actually MEANINGFUL metaphysics and interpretation of the universe, God and YOU.

Hi Dimmesdale

Thank you for sharing your problems with me/us.

Maybe this thread is of interest to you:

http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread ... -questions

There is also an answer from Krishna.com (post 4).

I have just posted another reply, but you have to wait for it (a moderator have to approve it first, so it is not in there yet).

With regard to Christianity then there is this interesting book:

http://thelightuniversal.org/shorterroad.html

http://thelightuniversal.org/page75.html

And then there is Alan Watts:



He also have something to say about Brahman:



Just for inspiration:







There are great things going on in the world.

[alexxcJRO]

But really if you're looking for logical consistency when it comes to this sect of Hinduism (or most sects of Hinduism) you will not find it

For that I would say you should turn to Christianity, which offers an actually MEANINGFUL metaphysics and interpretation of the universe, God and YOU.

But really if you're looking for logical consistency when it comes to the most sects/denominations of Christianity(if not all) you will not find it.

Illogical nonsense like:

- An omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent/perfectly good/morally perfect, personal god that sacrifices himself to himself in order to be able to forgive humans from something he is ultimately responsible for or an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent/perfectly good/morally perfect, personal god that sacrifices himself to himself in order to be able to save humans from himself.

- An omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent/perfectly good/morally perfect, personal god that coexists together with genuine disbelief in him, psychopaths(can't experience or understand love, have severe problems with empathy), gratuitous evil/suffering (non-moral agents(infants, small children, severely mentally impaired, non-human animals) indiscriminately suffer because of non-moral/natural evils(cancer, genetic diseases, hurricanes, asteroids, natural forest fires).

- An omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent/perfectly good/morally perfect, personal god that has regrets, gets angry, changes his mind.

- An omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent/perfectly good/morally perfect, personal god that inflicts or orders humans to inflict countless suffering, pain and death to countless non-moral agents(infants, small children, severely mentally impaired, non-human animals) on numerous occasions.

- An omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent/perfectly good/morally perfect, personal god that has free will.

- An omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent/perfectly good/morally perfect, personal god that takes sides/has favorites.


Observations:

God is omnipotent = can do anything as long is logically possible

God is omniscient = has perfect knowledge, knows the future including his own future actions.

God is omnibenevolent/perfectly good/morally perfect = equally loves all unconditionally, equally is benevolent to all, does no evil but chooses always the most perfectly good action.

Personal God = wants all humans to believe in him, wants to have a relationship based on love with all humans, intervenes in humans affairs, in the universe.
.

[Dimmesdale]

I've actually come to the conclusion that the Biblical God does not exist. I am not too sure of what I believe now. I am open to the truth as it is, though.