The Self Illusion: Why There is No 'You' Inside Your Head

[Compassionist]

Please read The Self Illusion: Why There is No 'You' Inside Your Head. Thank you.

[Overcomer]

Why do you want us to read that book? What is the value in it? What discussion do you hope to engender with it? Can you give us a synopsis?

I, for one, can't afford to buy books willy-nilly. I only have a limited amount of money and I have to have a good reason to purchase such a book -- unless it's available at my local library which is my first choice before buying.

So if you want people to read the book, then please provide information about it and why you recommend it.

Thanks! O.

[shnarkle]

Why do you want us to read that book? What is the value in it? What discussion do you hope to engender with it? Can you give us a synopsis?

I, for one, can't afford to buy books willy-nilly. I only have a limited amount of money and I have to have a good reason to purchase such a book -- unless it's available at my local library which is my first choice before buying.

So if you want people to read the book, then please provide information about it and why you recommend it.

Thanks! O.

The description provided in the link is more than enough to get the ball rolling. The guy is pointing out that the idea of a self is nothing but an idea, or a conglomeration of ideas. Are you an idea? Are you the product of what you're thinking? If not, then who are you, or as he says, who do you think you are? He's pointing out that 'you' can't get away from your own ideas of who you are, and if we're honest, these individual constructions of our own mind are simply not who we really are.

People tend to believe that thinking is something we will to do, but the fact is that it is, more often than not; something that is happening to us, or just simply happening autonomously.

[Compassionist]

Why do you want us to read that book? What is the value in it? What discussion do you hope to engender with it? Can you give us a synopsis?

I, for one, can't afford to buy books willy-nilly. I only have a limited amount of money and I have to have a good reason to purchase such a book -- unless it's available at my local library which is my first choice before buying.

So if you want people to read the book, then please provide information about it and why you recommend it.

Thanks! O.

I found the book to be very revealing about our sense of self. I used to think that I am an immortal soul - a permanent entity with a free will and that other humans and other sentient organisms are also the same. In reality, we are all impermanent processes lacking free will. We are faulty mechanisms rather than guilty souls. It made me realise that we are not sinners or saints, we are deterministic processes which are prisoners of causality. We evolved naturally in a reality which is not fine-tuned for life because life is incredibly rare. If reality was fine-tuned by God for life, life would be everywhere. Life is in fact so rare that we have not found any life on any other solar system despite there being many trillions of stars and planets. We shouldn't take things personally because nothing is personal - even our sense of self is an illusion created by impermanent processes.

As far as I know, all our choices are determined by our genes, environments, nutrients and experiences. We are not and cannot be free from causality. We do what we find rewarding and refrain from doing what we find punishing. For example, I am a pacifist vegan because I find it rewarding to know that I have refrained from causing suffering and death to sentient biological organisms. Others are omnivores because they find it rewarding to eat meat and they don't care about the suffering and death of sentient biological organisms. Different people find different things rewarding or punishing because they have different genes, environments, nutrients and experiences.

Things I want to do but can't do due to lack of ability:

1. Go back in time and prevent all suffering and death and injustice.
2. Make all living things equally omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent and be the owner of an infinite number of universes each.
3. End all diseases, health problems, deaths, etc.
4. Prevent all natural disasters.
5. Prevent all accidents.
6. Prevent all violence, killings, rapes, kidnappings, tortures, crimes, persecutions, bullying, bigotry, hypocrisy, selfishness, cruelty, etc.
7. Prevent all malevolence, indifference and ignorance.
8. Give everyone the ability to teleport everywhere in an infinite number of universes across an infinite number of timelines.
9. Prevent all poverty.

Things I have done, still do or will do even though I don't want to do them:

1. Breathe
2. Eat
3. Drink
4. Sleep
5. Dream
7. Pee
8. Poo
9. Fart
10. Burp
11. Sneeze
12. Cough
13. Age
14. Get ill
15. Get injured
16. Sweat
17. Cry
18. Suffer
19. Have flashbacks
20. Have intrusive thoughts
21. Have delusions
22. Have hallucinations
23. Die

So, given the above two lists, how am I free? I am clearly not free. My will is not free, it is constrained by my genes, environments, nutrients and experiences. I am a prisoner causality from conception to death, as are you and every living thing. We are all doomed to be conceived, to suffer and to die.

[shnarkle]

I used to think that I am an immortal soul - a permanent entity with a free will and that other humans and other sentient organisms are also the same.

So far so good.

In reality, we are all impermanent processes lacking free will. We are faulty mechanisms rather than guilty souls. It made me realise that we are not sinners or saints, we are deterministic processes which are prisoners of causality. We evolved naturally in a reality which is not fine-tuned for life because life is incredibly rare.

The problem with this claim is that it doesn't take into consideration the fact that this is still just what you think. There is no essential difference between what you used to think and what you think now because you're still just looking at what you're thinking.

If reality was fine-tuned by God for life, life would be everywhere.

And yet life is everywhere.

Life is in fact so rare that we have not found any life on any other solar system despite there being many trillions of stars and planets.

There is no way anyone can tell if there is life on any of the planets in any of the nearest galaxies. I thought it was ironic when NASA took one of their rovers somewhere around the Arctic, and discovered previously undiscovered life forms.

We shouldn't take things personally because nothing is personal

You're still assuming that it's possible to take something personal to begin with; it isn't. There is no "should". Nothing is personal, therefore it is impossible to take things personally.

- even our sense of self is an illusion created by impermanent processes.

it isn't yours or mine, or ours. to begin with. It is as you say, an illusion. A persistent delusion. It is an abstract construction of the mind formed during early childhood development. It isn't real as anything other than a real idea.

[Compassionist]

I used to think that I am an immortal soul - a permanent entity with a free will and that other humans and other sentient organisms are also the same.

So far so good.

In reality, we are all impermanent processes lacking free will. We are faulty mechanisms rather than guilty souls. It made me realise that we are not sinners or saints, we are deterministic processes which are prisoners of causality. We evolved naturally in a reality which is not fine-tuned for life because life is incredibly rare.

The problem with this claim is that it doesn't take into consideration the fact that this is still just what you think. There is no essential difference between what you used to think and what you think now because you're still just looking at what you're thinking.

If reality was fine-tuned by God for life, life would be everywhere.

And yet life is everywhere.

Life is in fact so rare that we have not found any life on any other solar system despite there being many trillions of stars and planets.

There is no way anyone can tell if there is life on any of the planets in any of the nearest galaxies. I thought it was ironic when NASA took one of their rovers somewhere around the Arctic, and discovered previously undiscovered life forms.

We shouldn't take things personally because nothing is personal

You're still assuming that it's possible to take something personal to begin with; it isn't. There is no "should". Nothing is personal, therefore it is impossible to take things personally.

- even our sense of self is an illusion created by impermanent processes.

it isn't yours or mine, or ours. to begin with. It is as you say, an illusion. A persistent delusion. It is an abstract construction of the mind formed during early childhood development. It isn't real as anything other than a real idea.

Life is not everywhere in the universe. Most of the universe is empty space. Yes, there are many stars and planets and moons but most of them are without living things. We have sent people to the moon and rovers and space crafts to other planets but found no extra-terrestrial living things yet. Life is very rare in reality. Reality is very harsh and unfair. That's why 99.99% of all living things to ever evolve on Earth are already extinct. There has been 5 mass extinctions on Earth. Some say that we are in the middle of a human-caused sixth mass extinction. Unless we wise up, we are going to go extinct and take the remaining 0.01% species with us.

[shnarkle]

Life is not everywhere in the universe. Most of the universe is empty space. Yes, there are many stars and planets and moons but most of them are without living things.

You seem to be conflating things with life itself. Things are alive, but things are not life.

We have sent people to the moon and rovers and space crafts to other planets but found no extra-terrestrial living things yet. Life is very rare in reality.

You're assuming biological things are the only form of life just because they're alive.

Reality is very harsh and unfair.

This has nothing to do with life. These are simply ideas you're thinking. It doesn't matter what your personal opinion is due to the fact that you actually have no personal opinion to begin with. You're still thinking in terms of a self.

That's why 99.99% of all living things to ever evolve on Earth are already extinct.

This alone should spotlight the fact that you're claims to fairness are unfounded as biological evolution can't produce objective standards of morality.

There has been 5 mass extinctions on Earth. Some say that we are in the middle of a human-caused sixth mass extinction. Unless we wise up, we are going to go extinct and take the remaining 0.01% species with us.

You seem to be taking this very personally. Perhaps if you were aware of the fact that it is impossible to take anything personally rather than just assuming an intellectual understanding of this fact, you would see the contradiction.

[Compassionist]

Life is not everywhere in the universe. Most of the universe is empty space. Yes, there are many stars and planets and moons but most of them are without living things.

You seem to be conflating things with life itself. Things are alive, but things are not life.

We have sent people to the moon and rovers and space crafts to other planets but found no extra-terrestrial living things yet. Life is very rare in reality.

You're assuming biological things are the only form of life just because they're alive.

Reality is very harsh and unfair.

This has nothing to do with life. These are simply ideas you're thinking. It doesn't matter what your personal opinion is due to the fact that you actually have no personal opinion to begin with. You're still thinking in terms of a self.

That's why 99.99% of all living things to ever evolve on Earth are already extinct.

This alone should spotlight the fact that you're claims to fairness are unfounded as biological evolution can't produce objective standards of morality.

There has been 5 mass extinctions on Earth. Some say that we are in the middle of a human-caused sixth mass extinction. Unless we wise up, we are going to go extinct and take the remaining 0.01% species with us.

You seem to be taking this very personally. Perhaps if you were aware of the fact that it is impossible to take anything personally rather than just assuming an intellectual understanding of this fact, you would see the contradiction.

There are living things e.g. human, lions, trees, cows, etc. There are non-living things e.g. stones, clouds, stars, cars, etc. I am saying that living things are extremely rare. We have found living things only on the planet we live on. We have no evidence of living things on other planets, other solar systems, other galaxies and other universes. I want life to be fair but life is not fair - this bothers me a lot. I want no one to suffer but all sentient biological organisms suffer - some more than others. Only suffering and death are guaranteed for sentient biological organisms.

Are there other forms of life which are not biological e.g. gods, angels, demons, etc.? I don't know. Given the abundance of suffering and unfairness in the world, I think gods are either evil or imaginary.

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 8 by Compassionist]

None of that has anything to do with this OP. The point is that the "you" inside your head believes all sorts of things that also belong on that same screen projecting "you". All of these images of "you" are on the same screen with everything else which is also no more real than "you". Only the screen is real, but until you stop looking at the projections, "you" will continue to believe that not only 'you' are real, but "your" ideas as well.

I'm simply pointing out that a few of the posts submitted after the OP are moving off topic and contradicting the OP. Did you read the book or just the dust jacket?

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to post 1 by Compassionist]

I object to the notion "there is no you!"

People who have lost themselves have the feeling that there is no "you" inside the head but they are schizophrenics, I believe! I think this can be demonstrated by interviewing these patients.

However, the "you" inside your head can be restored by psychiatric medical treatment and this can be demonstrated too!

Thus, the OP's claim is not scientific!

Please... Don't lose your head to evil! Cheers!