Does God Exist

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avalon
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Does God Exist

Post #1

Post by avalon »

Hey!

(Please don't delete this you can delete the other posts i doubled posted. Sorry)

Everyone seems to really not understand God. I am not saying I do but the concept is pretty easy. So this really gets me tense when people say God does not exist or does he exist?

Christianity never created the concept of God it is as old as humanity the concept of God and it is a valid concept and correct and extremely testable provable and will one day be answered. It is like gathering evidence for the existence of the invisible which some people did not believe invisible things existed until they discovered things which we cannot see in visible light or microscopic world.

Other societies adopted the term God because they like us believed and were correct in their beliefs and shared idols and stories of what they "think" God is. The term God developed and that is why people came together and stuck together because they wanted to get the Artwork the Idols, the stories in the undying curiosity.

So God is an alien, that is basically it in a nutshell. However it was said there are many Gods each dissimilar and they all have a nature. The Earth is not a personification of a Goddess, but she has a nature, and we refer to these Gods as Female, such as the Mother Land, or Britannia a Roman Goddess.

We all know Britannia exists it is so obvious we overlook it therefore it is proof of her existence and she has a temperate nature. Romans would ask what is the nature like of Britannia and they would describe her as magical, untamed, wild, armed with a trident, shield, with a dress blown by the relentless wind. This would be perfectly understandable by Romans not as some magical fairy in the sky.

There are other minor Gods the cause for everything around us an allegorical world view centered on all the things we admire and fear. Such as the folklore of ancient Europe about sandman in roman times it was called Hypnos his family were night, death and darkness, Hypnos was sleep. The power of sleep is very real and hypnos became the word for that altered state of trance in sleep which is real. But the myths around him are entirely metaphorical to understand in a short visual imagery to explain the word of the real phenomena. Rather than writing one hundred thousand words they wrote perhaps 50 words with imagery it is abstract thought.

This was Roman folklore called Mythology which was something to read in bed but did not believe as fact. They had philosophy to explain nature they didn't believe in the Gods as strongly as we believe in the Gods today. Cant you see that their beliefs in religion also transcend philosophy a creative way to explain what they think could exist, like aliens on other worlds. Likewise they didn't believe mountains were alive but they believed they existed and they had names for the Gods that created them to explain their point of origin of their creation.

That is why when you say does the Hebrew God exist, well just look at what happened to the Jewish people they were slaughtered throughout their history. And the story goes that the Jews killed his son... Get it now. The Gods exist but they might not be exactly like us..

You don't have to be alive to exist, you don't have to be sentient to be alive, you don't have to be intelligent to be sentient. The question is does God exist and well yes we know the Gods do exist, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Mars and well that is a modern thing but used exactly as Romans and Greeks would use the term a naming convention. But they didn't worship planets like people say they do, they merely honored them like today.

Does God exist, yes, did he create the universe, yes, is he omnipotent, yes, is he everywhere, yes, however is the Jewish God, the primordial creator deity. As i believed the Jewish God was the God of war and just look at the Israelite jewish history slaughtered by their enemies, brutalized and enslaved and exiled for their history. That is because the story goes that they the Jewish people killed the son of God.

I think this is an open and shut case

My question is what do people mean, when they ask does God exist? If i say does something exist and I don't understand what they refer to it is not evidence for the non-existence of something then push the onus of blame on me to prove something i have no idea what your referring to.

Now if you say does Jehova, Yahweh, Elohim exist? Well why dont you define what i am looking for. Who is that God you refer to? Because we know the universe exists and that is God they were referring to as the creator and he is masculine and created himself.

Now that is where the debate begins :) Who is God? What is God? Then I can say well perhaps there is no God at all except for within our imagination. And we should not worship any created being. So please define God so i can understand if it is provable.
Last edited by avalon on Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

avalon
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Post #2

Post by avalon »

Hey!

Now we know their are forces of nature which are governed by laws naturally occurring and that we mere humans can harness the natural laws. That power does not make us Gods, but we humans were defined as children of the creation manifesting and originating from the forces set in motion by nature an aspect of God.

The Greeks heavily influenced the Roman world speaking of atoms flitting into existence and exiting existence being the makeup of everything composing it and eventually returning to that state of atomic existence from an origin point influenced by natural laws we observe the aspect of creation and through us return back to this source of atomic state from a cosmic source the origin of the atom.

So therefore the Greeks concluded that their must be an afterlife where we are pushed in and out of existence. Other religions say we will reincarnate back into existence eternally other people say their a multiple levels of reality but that is speculation and we don't know.

But surely if we humans exist and we can use the natural laws then surely someone else intelligent enough, can also do more with the forces of nature and can be called a divinity. Who is to say intelligence is required to harness that power? To manipulate the forces deriving orderly human forms and perfectly spherical worlds could be just a mechanical system.

But the question is how is order like this achieved? Is it driven by intelligence, or random fluctuations of atomic processes? Is their a God Behind the order of the universe? What is he like? Then we can say, can we find this God? If we can we could be able to prove it so therefore if you ask me to prove it you must explain what exactly you want proven. However we do know divinity is possible and does exist and that God is also divine.

Clizby Wampuscat
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Post #3

Post by Clizby Wampuscat »

Now that is where the debate begins Smile Who is God? What is God? Then I can say well perhaps there is no God at all except for within our imagination. And we should not worship any created being. So please define God so i can understand if it is provable.
When I say that I don't believe a god exists it is because I have never seen sufficient evidence to warrant that belief for any god claim. So I am not going to offer what God I don't believe in because I am not claiming there is a god. Every person has their own idea of who god is and what attributes they have.

If you believe in a god please define that god and provide sufficient evidence for belief.

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Post #4

Post by Clizby Wampuscat »

avalon wrote: However we do know divinity is possible and does exist and that God is also divine.
How do you know this?

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Post #5

Post by Athetotheist »

The problem we have with defining God is that we tend to anthropomorphize things which are beyond our understanding. We want to have a personal relationship with----or at least a personal experience of----the creator of the universe, so we end up making that creator look as familiar as possible; we envision the creator as a father, a mother, a guide, a watchmaker, a lawgiver....whatever we feel a creator should be. That limits us to conceiving of God as a great cosmic family member or tribal leader, essentially.

I often think that people look in the wrong direction to find God. Rather than God being "out there" somewhere above the universe, maybe God is "beneath" the universe growing all its natural laws into existence from a mystical seed.

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Re: Does God Exist

Post #6

Post by Menotu »

[Replying to post 1 by avalon]

Does the Christian God exist? Probably only in the minds of those whom believe he's real. Is that enough for 'existence'?
Does this guy, as described in and taught from, the modern bible a real 'thing' (being/man/whatever)? Not that I can see.
Does a god exist? Maybe, but is that simply because of our limited means of understanding our environment?

Surely some believe he is real. And if that makes them feel better.....well good for them. Just don't force that on to others.
Seems pretty simple. But man's ego seems to make it complicated.. Too complicated.

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Post #7

Post by Hawkins »

First is why do humans need a God to exist. It is because future is out of our reach. Either we assume with faith that life ends along with our death such that we don't need to do any preparation beyond that point (it's a human nature to prepare for a foreseeable future), or assume with faith that life goes on beyond that point.

Since we can't confirm either by human capability, (even today's science won't confirm either so you don't need to assume more than science can tell) the only possibility for humans to possibly reach the truth of a future is by means of a God if this God exists at all.

That's why humans need a God for. Now next is how we can possibly get to know that such a God exists. Unless God has a good reason to hide behind, He should show up to guide the inferior humans especially when it is said that a hell is possibly lying ahead. So the first question for the gods of religions is "does the God truly have a good reason not to contact mankind actively, but to choose to hide behind that due to His absence some humans have to end up in hell?"

Now if the God has a truly good reason to hide behind, then what will be the next most efficient way for His truth to convey (mostly it's about how humans will end up with, such as heaven and hell)?

That being said. The God of Christianity has a covenant for men to be saved by faith. He thus cannot show up at will or else humans in majority won't be able to be saved by faith. A covenant is abide by both sides, God has a duty to hide behind such that the majority of humans are thus savable by faith.

The next most efficient way for a truth to convey (when God showing up directly is out of option) is through human witnessing!

When you watch TV for daily news, information don't come with evidence, they are in a form of human testimonies. When you read from newspapers this is more obvious.

When you read history from history books, they are another form of human testimonies. You won't get evidence of most history.

Even in terms of science, it's in a form of testimonies from scientists such that you know for a fact that, say, black holes exist but without any evidence presented. Among the 100% humans who know for a fact that black holes exist, 99% of them don't have the evidence.

In a nutshell, humans read facts from testimonies much more often than from evidence. That's how this reality operates but perhaps without being noticed by humans themselves.

What humans failed to grasp is the process of human witnessing. God is the one who knows better. Thus in God's Holy Book, it's all explicitly about terms such as witness, testimony, preaching (broadcast in modern term) and finally faith (without evidence presented such as the existence of black holes).

If the US government would have something for all its citizens to get informed of, it will turn on the full capability of its media power, CNN, Fox News etc.

In effect,

Acts 1:8 (NIV2011)
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.�

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Post #8

Post by Menotu »

[Replying to post 7 by Hawkins]
First is why do humans need a God to exist.
Maybe it's due to the lack of knowledge? Or the need to have something larger than us to be rooting for us? Supporting us?
Maybe it's because we're creative and imaginative?
The God of Christianity has a covenant for men to be saved by faith.
That strikes me as not a very loving god at all. Why chance it? Why not save those who want it and leave the others alone to their own devices? Because he loves us? Then that's why he uses faith and not logic when he knows not everyone will have the faith necessary?
He thus cannot show up at will or else humans in majority won't be able to be saved by faith.
If it were me, I'd rather use common sense and absolute truth to save my loved ones rather than relying on their faith, which I know some won't have. But that's just me. I guess I'm more loving than God?
The next most efficient way for a truth to convey (when God showing up directly is out of option) is through human witnessing!
I'd say the most efficient way for a truth to be conveyed is having the one with the truth show it to me directly, not through another being when they're imperfect.
You won't get evidence of most history.
History doesn't claim to have all the answers and be able to provide me with eternal life. Which is why I wouldn't use history for such things.
humans read facts from testimonies much more often than from evidence.
Perhaps that's because there more testimonies (many which are phony) than there is known facts about life.
What humans failed to grasp is the process of human witnessing.
I think many times they grasp that well enough. It's simply a person's actions that they claim are based on a belief. Simple enough IMO

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Post #9

Post by wannabe »

Hawkins wrote:
Since we can't confirm either by human capability, (even today's science won't confirm either so you don't need to assume more than science can tell) the only possibility for humans to possibly reach the truth of a future is by means of a God if this God exists at all.

That's why humans need a God for. Now next is how we can possibly get to know that such a God exists. Unless God has a good reason to hide behind, He should show up to guide the inferior humans especially when it is said that a hell is possibly lying ahead. So the first question for the gods of religions is "does the God truly have a good reason not to contact mankind actively, but to choose to hide behind that due to His absence some humans have to end up in hell?"
-----
Unless God has a good reason to hide behind, He should show up to guide the inferior humans especially when it is said that a hell is possibly lying ahead
God did - in the form of Jesus.
Now next is how we can possibly get to know that such a God exists.
All you have to do to find God is to read and understand the words of Jesus.
It's That simple.

If you read the words of Jesus and don't understand his logic or meaning, bring it to a debate.
However if you do you will find God.

Jesus's words are written throughout the new testament , and in some copies, just his words are high-lighted - (if you want to skip the history parts.)
:
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Live to give , Give to live ( love Jesus )

: I believe a mans spirit is more than just his imagination.

I believe in forever. That's true even without religion.(or man)

: Live to give, give to life, Forgive to live.

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Post #10

Post by Divine Insight »

avalon wrote: Now we know their are forces of nature which are governed by laws naturally occurring
No we don't know any such thing. In fact, we actually invented this entire idea.

What we have done is look at what nature does and describe it. We then call our descriptions of how the universe behaves "laws".

But in truth the universe isn't obeying any laws. Moreover, our descriptions are not even sound. If the universe had to obey our mathematics (i.e. are laws or descriptions of it), it wouldn't run at all. It would instantly crash and burn.

So it's actually a misguided notion to think that the universe is governed by laws, it's not.
[center]Image
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
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