Without God life has no purpose

For the love of the pursuit of knowledge

Moderator: Moderators

2Dbunk
Site Supporter
Posts: 838
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:39 pm
Location: East of Eden

Without God life has no purpose

Post #1

Post by 2Dbunk »

Menotu wrote:

[Replying to post 1 by man, in 'Right or Wrong' forum]

Without God Life Has No Purpose

That's a horrible way of thinking to me. Why do we need to rely on something else to have purpose? Sounds like if you think this you're setting yourself up for failure. Unless you believe in this concept. Even still, I think deep down, you still are setting yourself up for failure as you can't compare to perfection, even when you can't provide what perfection is.

First (pardon me if it has been mentioned before), but doesn't this belong under 'Philosophy?'

So I answer this premise philosophically, and in a new thread under 'Philosophy,' if I may be permitted. Thjs is man's premise and he deserves credit for the original post).

WE LIVE -- that is an awesome plus, to say the least. It's the best show between Mercury and Pluto, par none -- AND BEYOND to as far as we can reconnoiter, and we can reconnoiter pretty far.

Let's see: we haven't found any angels sitting on clouds when we got that high with aeronautics; we went to the Moon but did not find heaven, but instead a crater pocked desert; need I go on? Maybe that hole ("no purpose") is really curiosity -- we can't seem to quench that desire to know! If there is a hole in non-theist's makeup, it has been put there by this mysterious 'God,' the Master of the Gaps.

So far, I've spoken for life's plethora of partying, and don't say that it isn't a party but some melancholy trek from cradle to grave, always worshipping that entity who died on the cross for us so that whoever believes of 'Him' will live in eternal melancholy. BUT THERE'S MORE (and theists talk of 'no purpose' other than living for "God!"):

EXISTENCE ITSELF -- The Cosmos exist, like no pot-pourri that has ever existed -- NAY, think of an infinite kaleidoscope accompanied by the grandest orchestra one can imagine, and that might get you one-tenth of what I'm trying to describe (keep in mind that one-tenth of infinity is equal to infinity). Now, an individual's 'hole' that you talk of on this scale is infinitesimal -- compare that to the meaning of the Cosmos and what do you have?

I'm all ears.

User avatar
bluegreenearth
Guru
Posts: 1878
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:06 pm
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Has thanked: 653 times
Been thanked: 462 times

Re: Without God life has no purpose

Post #11

Post by bluegreenearth »

Without Dog, life has no porpoise. ;)

Image
So long, and thanks for all the fish.

User avatar
Difflugia
Guru
Posts: 2316
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 am
Location: Michigan
Has thanked: 1886 times
Been thanked: 1384 times

Re: Without God life has no purpose

Post #12

Post by Difflugia »

bluegreenearth wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:09 am Without Dog, life has no porpoise. ;)

Image
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
Wait... did God give that porpoise a weird little pelvis?

elijahpne
Student
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:47 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Without God life has no purpose

Post #13

Post by elijahpne »

[Replying to Tcg in post #10]

If I get you right, you were actually saying: Belief in god/gods does not necessarily entail belief in the actual existence of god/gods. This pretend belief, however, can be used to provide purpose in life.

Just don't know exactly what kind of purpose this sort of reasoning will provide though. To me it's like saying: Believe in yourself but do not actually believe that you exist. Shouldn't believing in God and his actual existence - faith in God, in other words - gives us a higher purpose in life. But so much for that - I might be just misreading things.

The culture I grew with teaches belief in God with no mention, whatsoever, of purpose or meaning of existence.

Search for meaning is, understandably, a wholly individual experience. It is even life-changing and would probably be set off, for example, when one ponders along lines similar to these: "Is this life all there is? Why is there a lot of suffering and injustice in the world? Why are we here in the fist place?" Where do we go from here after we die? Is there eternity?"

A person in such a state of mind would probably not be at peace with himself until satisfying answers are found. His or her eternal happiness is at stake in this issue.

We all normally want to create a good life for ourselves - the world is our oyster, so to speak, especially when we are young. It offers opportunities for securing wealth, getting married and having a blissful family life, travelling, learning the arts and sciences, humanitarian works, etc. None of these preoccupations, however noble they are, could actually be the overriding purpose in one's life. It should be higher than all of these.

In my own quest for that elusive meaning, I came to a very important realization: When, at first, I was just seeking for purpose, it turned out that I was actually seeking God - you can not separate one from the other. I came to have faith in God - an unshakable faith - not only that he exists but that he also is the Creator of all things and is actually very much interested in us humans.

When one finds satisfying answers to the ultimate questions of life - about which the editor of The Wall Street Journal Vermont Royster wrote these words:
In the contemplation of man himself, of his dilemmas, of his place in this universe, we are little further along than when time began. We are still left with questions of who we are and why we are and where we are going

- one has find true purpose.

Without God life would have many preoccupations but no real purpose. This is the eternal principle I shall live by for the rest of my days - for eternity, if God permits.

Peace mate!

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 7157
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 1290 times
Been thanked: 1514 times

Re: Without God life has no purpose

Post #14

Post by Tcg »

elijahpne wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:36 pm [Replying to Tcg in post #10]

If I get you right, you were actually saying: Belief in god/gods does not necessarily entail belief in the actual existence of god/gods. This pretend belief, however, can be used to provide purpose in life.
No, that is not what I am saying. Belief in god/gods can provide meaning. However, there is no need for god/gods to actually exist for believers to believe nor for their belief to provide meaning to their lives.

The belief is real, that belief doesn't necessitate the object of the belief being real.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

Dimmesdale
Sage
Posts: 726
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: The Temple of Logic
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: Without God life has no purpose

Post #15

Post by Dimmesdale »

I guess the question consists in God's relation to "life" or "creation" more broadly.

Why did God create life and the universe? Did it arise for some other goal, or was it simply because God "did what he did?"

If creation (and therefore life) occurred spontaneously to God, with no objective, then life has no purpose even with God. Because there is no point to existence. It simply is as it is.

But, I think God does have a purpose for life. That is, ultimately, salvation/glorification and communion of the finite with the infinite through a NECESSARY PROCESS.

As with any endeavor, effort is necessary. Effort was required of Jesus to save the creation from its own destruction. I think this was foreseen by God. Similarly, effort is required of us if we are to make it to Heaven in the end. This supposes that life is serious, that there is an end-goal, that we can't simply "be" and do whatever we like....

Not everyone likes this seriousness. People prefer to be distracted and console themselves with trifles. But God is a serious God, I now think.

User avatar
The Tanager
Prodigy
Posts: 3207
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:08 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Without God life has no purpose

Post #16

Post by The Tanager »

This discussion depends on what one means by "purpose". Most theists have in mind the idea of an objective purpose for human life. A 'right answer' to what it means for humans to flourish. Without a God, I'm not sure there can be an objective purpose for life.

User avatar
bluegreenearth
Guru
Posts: 1878
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:06 pm
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Has thanked: 653 times
Been thanked: 462 times

Re: Without God life has no purpose

Post #17

Post by bluegreenearth »

The Tanager wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:37 pm This discussion depends on what one means by "purpose". Most theists have in mind the idea of an objective purpose for human life. A 'right answer' to what it means for humans to flourish. Without a God, I'm not sure there can be an objective purpose for life.
Just curious because I'm not prepared to endorse either side of this debate:

If the ontology of life were ever demonstrated to be through deterministic natural processes rather than divine intervention, would existence itself be life's objective purpose in every moment of its existence since this would be the determined outcome of the natural processes that preceded it?

User avatar
The Tanager
Prodigy
Posts: 3207
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:08 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Without God life has no purpose

Post #18

Post by The Tanager »

bluegreenearth wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:08 pmJust curious because I'm not prepared to endorse either side of this debate:

If the ontology of life were ever demonstrated to be through deterministic natural processes rather than divine intervention, would existence itself be life's objective purpose in every moment of its existence since this would be the determined outcome of the natural processes that preceded it?
Perhaps that would depend on what one means by something being objective. If one means the same purpose for all human (or any) life, then maybe not. For instance, the anti-natalist would be determined to be against human existence (or there could be an equivalent deterministic process moving towards all life ceasing to exist). But if one means that bge's purpose is decided by things outside of bge, bge's purpose could be objective in that sense. I do think I was assuming free will as part of the equation in my thoughts.

jimtatertayte
Scholar
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:39 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Without God life has no purpose

Post #19

Post by jimtatertayte »

2Dbunk wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:03 pm
Menotu wrote:

[Replying to post 1 by man, in 'Right or Wrong' forum]

Without God Life Has No Purpose

That's a horrible way of thinking to me. Why do we need to rely on something else to have purpose? Sounds like if you think this you're setting yourself up for failure. Unless you believe in this concept. Even still, I think deep down, you still are setting yourself up for failure as you can't compare to perfection, even when you can't provide what perfection is.

First (pardon me if it has been mentioned before), but doesn't this belong under 'Philosophy?'

So I answer this premise philosophically, and in a new thread under 'Philosophy,' if I may be permitted. Thjs is man's premise and he deserves credit for the original post).

WE LIVE -- that is an awesome plus, to say the least. It's the best show between Mercury and Pluto, par none -- AND BEYOND to as far as we can reconnoiter, and we can reconnoiter pretty far.

Let's see: we haven't found any angels sitting on clouds when we got that high with aeronautics; we went to the Moon but did not find heaven, but instead a crater pocked desert; need I go on? Maybe that hole ("no purpose") is really curiosity -- we can't seem to quench that desire to know! If there is a hole in non-theist's makeup, it has been put there by this mysterious 'God,' the Master of the Gaps.

So far, I've spoken for life's plethora of partying, and don't say that it isn't a party but some melancholy trek from cradle to grave, always worshipping that entity who died on the cross for us so that whoever believes of 'Him' will live in eternal melancholy. BUT THERE'S MORE (and theists talk of 'no purpose' other than living for "God!"):

EXISTENCE ITSELF -- The Cosmos exist, like no pot-pourri that has ever existed -- NAY, think of an infinite kaleidoscope accompanied by the grandest orchestra one can imagine, and that might get you one-tenth of what I'm trying to describe (keep in mind that one-tenth of infinity is equal to infinity). Now, an individual's 'hole' that you talk of on this scale is infinitesimal -- compare that to the meaning of the Cosmos and what do you have?

I'm all ears.
Without God there is no life for God is life.

nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3191
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 819 times

Re: Life has no purpose?

Post #20

Post by nobspeople »

elphidium55 wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:49 am

For myself, I think Aristotle's answer is about right. The purpose of life is human flourishing achieved through reason and the acquisition of virtue.
Maybe, but one would have to agree that not only there is a purpose, but there needs to be a purpose. I think humanity likes to think if this way: a purpose for this, cause for that, etc. I'm not so sure that's true. Can't life exist without purpose (assuming we can all agree on what the purpose is)?
And if there is no purpose, does that make life any different? I guess it depends on the person but for me, not so much.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

Post Reply