The Tanager wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:02 pm
If you mean the same concept can be both, then I've never said that.
Let me make my case that more explicit then:
You said "I feel people should do X because of Y" is simple subjectivism. You also said "I feel people should do X because of Y" where Y is "people's opinion" is subjectivism proper. That's not same phrase with two different meanings; that's the same meaning, both simple subjectivism and subjectivism proper.
You said "I feel people should do X because of Y" is simple subjectivism. You also said "I feel people should do X because of Y" where Y is "Bust Nak's opinion" is objectivism. That's not same phrase with two different meanings; that's the same meaning, both simple subjectivism and objectivism.
I do not do that. When the question is what is my favorite flavor, there aren't competing opinions. I only have my one favorite. There are no other opinions on the matter of my favorite flavor.
The same applies to what people should do though, why is it weird when I do it, but not weird when you do it? When the question is what is my favorite way to behave, there aren't competing opinions. I only have my one favorite. There are no other opinions on the matter of
my favorite way to behave.
I like X because that's how I roll is a non-answer. It's not giving any actual reason, it's just saying that's what I do. But the question is asking what reason does one have.
In the exact same sense, "I like it because it feels good on my tongue" is a not giving any actual reason, it's just saying that's what your tongue does.
It's not person-independent. It's saying one's speed limit differs depending on who they are, not on some truth outside of themselves.
No, it's written in a book somewhere, that's a truth outside of themselves, and it's certainly mind-independent, whether you want to double down of person dependence or not.
There is the possibility that different tastes could exist and, if so, that would lead to different truths. That everyone's taste happens to be the same doesn't change that. As I said, if Nazi ideology overtook the world, that wouldn't make Nazi morals objectively true, even though everyone shared the same view.
Why do you think objective morality can't change?
The different "aspects of objectifying women" is the difference in the concepts.
That sounded very much like you accept my claim that the like and dislike are the same concept here.
What I understood you to have asked me was if "I think some people should do X because of Y" is the same thing as "Because of Y, I feel people should do X."
Yes, and as far as I can tell you accept that they are the same thing,
Simple subjectivism looks at what opinions we have. Objectivism/subjectivism proper looks into what kinds of reasons we give for our opinions.
Right, which means "because of Y, I feel people should do X" is both a look at what opinion I have, AND what kind of reason I give for our opinion, depending which part of the statement you want to focus on. (As opposed to a single statement with two meaning.)