Spinoza: 'A Man of Principle'

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Thomas123
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Spinoza: 'A Man of Principle'

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Post by Thomas123 »

I have chosen this man as an example of this human trait.

I often think of the plight of the early persecuted Christian's.
I lived during 'The Troubles' in the UK and Ireland. I remember this man's death very well.

Bobby Sands

'Sands died on 5 May 1981 in the Maze's prison hospital after 66 days on hunger strike, aged 27.

What is 'principle', in a person?
How much importance do you attach to it, if any.?
Is it ever, worth dying for? If so, When?
Do you admire Spinoza, as a person?
Does his personality add weight to his ideas, or is their purport and significance, , , ,unaffected by the subjective personality of their authors 'principles'. Do we need, a biography for intellectual reasoning?

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Re: Spinoza: 'A Man of Principle'

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Post by Divine Insight »

Thomas123 wrote: What is 'principle', in a person?
Every person has their own 'principles' therefore the very term is relative and subjective.

From Google:

Principle - a fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning

The problem here is that everyone decides what they accept as "truth". Moreover some principles may be a person's own subjective "truth".
How much importance do you attach to it, if any?
That depends on which principles we're talking about. I have many different principles, and many of those are dependent on the context of the situation under consideration.
Is it ever, worth dying for? If so, When?
I have certain principles that are indeed worth dying for. Although in most (if not all) of those case the only thing that would warrant dying would be if someone else's life is being saved in the process.

I don't have very many principles that would be worth dying over for their own sake.
Do you admire Spinoza, as a person?
I didn't know him, nor have I read much of his philosophy.
Does his personality add weight to his ideas, or is their purport and significance, , , ,unaffected by the subjective personality of their authors 'principles'.
From my perspective a person's personality adds nothing to his ideas. His ideas need to stand on their own. And since this is the case, it's the idea that has merit and not the person who was credited with supposedly first having the idea.

For example, in the case of the Christian Bible, the Jesus character never offered up an idea that I didn't already have. So there was nothing in anything that Jesus taught that I wasn't already aware of. Save of course for the claims of supernatural things which have never been shown to be true. But in terms of purely philosophical ideas I don't see where Jesus had any ideas that I didn't already have.
Do we need, a biography for intellectual reasoning?
No, absolutely not, because the person doing the reasoning is unimportant. Only the reasoning is important. And the reasoning has to stand on its own legs independent of any person who may have been credit for having introduced it first. In truth there may have been many people who had previously had the same ideas but were never known to have had those ideas.

Ideas ultimately don't belong to anyone.

Getting back to Spinoza. There was a time when I did begin to study Spinoza's philosophy. But due to the fact that Spinoza was indeed a "good" philosophy I didn't need to delve very far into Spinoza's philosophy.

Why not?

Well, because Spinoza lays out his premises early on, which is what any "good". I could instantly see that the premises Spinoza was basing his philosophy on have been long since proven to be false premises. He was basically presuming an eternal Newtonian (or Classical Physics) worldview.

So Spinoza's philosophy is basically outdated. I would love to hear how he might have changed his philosophical views based on what we know to be true today. But unfortunately he's no longer around to express those new views.

What about ethics? I don't really know what Spinoza's ethics were, nor do I care. I'm happy with my own personal ethics and I'm not looking to adopt the ethics of someone else.

And here's the thing, if my ethics are the same as Spinoza's ethics, then he is in agreement with me just as much as I would be in agreement with him. Who came first is irrelevant.
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Thomas123
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Re: Spinoza: 'A Man of Principle'

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Post by Thomas123 »

Dominic Cummings, Press Conference, coming up in U.K. at 4pm. This man is a key Government strategist, who appears to have fallen foul of his own Covid Lockdown Guidelines. Is his work and ideas good or is their worth,principle dependant?

That is the question? After all,....there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so!

???

ps: Well Done to all involved in the new site upgrade!

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Re: Spinoza: 'A Man of Principle'

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Post by Dimmesdale »

I studied Spinoza briefly in college.

Overall, I have a high opinion of him even though he wasn't a Christian. I see him as a sincere seeker of truth who, nevertheless, didn't get the full picture.

He paid a big price for his pursuit of truth, being essentially exiled, and that requires virtue, to stick to your guns in that way.

Principle in a human being is more than theoretical. In order to stick with a principle, follow through and be loyal to a line of thought, you require character. Else, you're a will-o-the-wisp, a non-entity, a coward..... At least, if we're talking about real principles that have practical effect, not mere talking points....

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