Nothing is certain; everything is permitted

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Seek
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Nothing is certain; everything is permitted

Post #1

Post by Seek »

Our knowledge comes from our inherently subjective perception, which has shown to be fallible. There is no truth, merely coincidental attitudes driven by probability. If there is no truth in perception, then there is no right or wrong about anything. Anyone be allowed to steal, slander, hurt, humiliate, insult, bully, swear at or even kill anyone at any time. Basically, anyone is permitted to do anything at any time. Normal people would say ”but Seek, there are laws you have to abide by”, but my response to them is ”How do I know my belief system isn’t flawed in such a way that enables me to do criminal things?”
Last edited by Seek on Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Difflugia
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Re: Nothing is certain; everything is permitted

Post #2

Post by Difflugia »

Seek wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:37 am Our knowledge comes from our inherently subjective perception, which has shown to be fallible. There is no truth, merely coincidental attitudes driven by probability. If there is no truth in perception, then there is no right or wrong about anything. Anyone can decide to steal, slander, hurt, humiliate, insult, bully, swear at or even kill anyone at any time. Basically, anyone is permitted to do anything at any time. Normal people would say ”but Seek, there are laws you have to abide by”, but my response to them is ”How do I know my belief system isn’t flawed in such a way that enables me to do criminal things?”
Since the position of every subatomic particle is indefinite and based on probabilities, the wall isn't actually there. You may punch it as hard as you want and nothing is actually there to injure your hand.

Is that how your slippery slope works or did I miss some subtle nuance of your claim?
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Re: Nothing is certain; everything is permitted

Post #3

Post by Seek »

Difflugia wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:04 am
Seek wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:37 am Our knowledge comes from our inherently subjective perception, which has shown to be fallible. There is no truth, merely coincidental attitudes driven by probability. If there is no truth in perception, then there is no right or wrong about anything. Anyone can decide to steal, slander, hurt, humiliate, insult, bully, swear at or even kill anyone at any time. Basically, anyone is permitted to do anything at any time. Normal people would say ”but Seek, there are laws you have to abide by”, but my response to them is ”How do I know my belief system isn’t flawed in such a way that enables me to do criminal things?”
Since the position of every subatomic particle is indefinite and based on probabilities, the wall isn't actually there. You may punch it as hard as you want and nothing is actually there to injure your hand.

Is that how your slippery slope works or did I miss some subtle nuance of your claim?
What I’m saying is that there is no certainty in beliefs. Descartes’ evil demon argument shows that we cannot even be sure the external world isn’t a hoax created by our brain.

Have you had a belief you accepted as fact yet it turned out to be false or fallible?

All of our beliefs are merely circumstantial. I think someone told me that ”Truth is always relative, and subject to change in the light of future evidence”.

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Difflugia
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Re: Nothing is certain; everything is permitted

Post #4

Post by Difflugia »

Seek wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:22 amWhat I’m saying is that there is no certainty in beliefs.
Yes, then you're sliding down the slippery slope that a lack of absolute certainty implies an absolute lack in reliability.
Seek wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:22 amDescartes’ evil demon argument shows that we cannot even be sure the external world isn’t a hoax created by our brain.
His thought experiment demonstrates that it's possible, but without further evidence, you're arguing that it's reasonable to accept the existence of invisible, silent, ephemeral, non-eating, non-pooping unicorns because we can't know that they don't exist.
Seek wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:22 amHave you had a belief you accepted as fact yet it turned out to be false or fallible?
Yes. That's up near the top of the slope, where I still am.
Seek wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:22 amAll of our beliefs are merely circumstantial. I think someone told me that ”Truth is always relative, and subject to change in the light of future evidence”.
And in rejecting even a rough heuristic analysis of those beliefs (despite acknowledging that our understanding is "driven by probability" even as you handwaved it away), you've slid all the way to the bottom.

Here and elsewhere, once an argument can be shown to rely on "anything is possible," it ceases to be an interesting argument.
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Miles
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Re: Nothing is certain; everything is permitted

Post #5

Post by Miles »

Seek wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:37 am Our knowledge comes from our inherently subjective perception, which has shown to be fallible. There is no truth, merely coincidental attitudes driven by probability. If there is no truth in perception, then there is no right or wrong about anything. Anyone be allowed to steal, slander, hurt, humiliate, insult, bully, swear at or even kill anyone at any time.
Is the fact that I know 2 + 2 = 4 a result of fallible, inherently subjective perception?
Basically, anyone is permitted to do anything at any time.
Yeah, that's why I was able to preform a 25 foot long jump at the age of six.


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Re: Nothing is certain; everything is permitted

Post #6

Post by Seek »

Miles wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:55 am
Seek wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:37 am Our knowledge comes from our inherently subjective perception, which has shown to be fallible. There is no truth, merely coincidental attitudes driven by probability. If there is no truth in perception, then there is no right or wrong about anything. Anyone be allowed to steal, slander, hurt, humiliate, insult, bully, swear at or even kill anyone at any time.
Is the fact that I know 2 + 2 = 4 a result of fallible, inherently subjective perception?
.
Yes. As Descartes pointed out, you can’t rule out that you’ve made a logical mistake every time you added 2 and 2 together.

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Re: Nothing is certain; everything is permitted

Post #7

Post by Miles »

Seek wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:43 am
Miles wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:55 am
Seek wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:37 am Our knowledge comes from our inherently subjective perception, which has shown to be fallible. There is no truth, merely coincidental attitudes driven by probability. If there is no truth in perception, then there is no right or wrong about anything. Anyone be allowed to steal, slander, hurt, humiliate, insult, bully, swear at or even kill anyone at any time.
Is the fact that I know 2 + 2 = 4 a result of fallible, inherently subjective perception?
.
Yes. As Descartes pointed out, you can’t rule out that you’ve made a logical mistake every time you added 2 and 2 together.
When I come up with "4" I certainly can because I know 2 + 2 = 4



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Re: Nothing is certain; everything is permitted

Post #8

Post by Seek »

Miles wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:09 am
Seek wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:43 am
Miles wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:55 am
Seek wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:37 am Our knowledge comes from our inherently subjective perception, which has shown to be fallible. There is no truth, merely coincidental attitudes driven by probability. If there is no truth in perception, then there is no right or wrong about anything. Anyone be allowed to steal, slander, hurt, humiliate, insult, bully, swear at or even kill anyone at any time.
Is the fact that I know 2 + 2 = 4 a result of fallible, inherently subjective perception?
.
Yes. As Descartes pointed out, you can’t rule out that you’ve made a logical mistake every time you added 2 and 2 together.
When I come up with "4" I certainly can because I know 2 + 2 = 4



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There are no guarantees for anything. There’s the slight probability that you’re lying and you don’t even know it. Have you never heard of a compulsive liar?

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Miles
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Re: Nothing is certain; everything is permitted

Post #9

Post by Miles »

Seek wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:21 am
Miles wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:09 am
Seek wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:43 am
Miles wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:55 am
Seek wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:37 am Our knowledge comes from our inherently subjective perception, which has shown to be fallible. There is no truth, merely coincidental attitudes driven by probability. If there is no truth in perception, then there is no right or wrong about anything. Anyone be allowed to steal, slander, hurt, humiliate, insult, bully, swear at or even kill anyone at any time.
Is the fact that I know 2 + 2 = 4 a result of fallible, inherently subjective perception?
.
Yes. As Descartes pointed out, you can’t rule out that you’ve made a logical mistake every time you added 2 and 2 together.
When I come up with "4" I certainly can because I know 2 + 2 = 4



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There are no guarantees for anything.
Sure there are. The computer monitor I bought was guaranteed by its manufacturer, Samsung, as described HERE



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Re: Nothing is certain; everything is permitted

Post #10

Post by Aetixintro »

[Replying to Seek in post #1]

And in the end, they all run to the psychologist for a grip on life again! How? "Yes, how naughty have you really been? Are you this naughty or that naughty? Ok, not the worst!"

Other than that, scientifically, there's a reset by the 3-step treatment for the loss of moral sense, the schizophrenia, "to end the nightmares and get some sleep". The 3-step treatment is scientific ECT, Olanzapine (eg. Zyprexa) and medical sleep assistance (diazepam-based).

;) :? :thanks:
I'm cool! :) - Stronger Religion every day! Also by "mathematical Religion", the eternal forms, God closing the door on corrupt humanity, possibly!

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