Can We Choose To Believe In God?.

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Miles
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Can We Choose To Believe In God?.

Post #1

Post by Miles »

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Assuming choice is possible, how does a person go about freely choosing to believe in god?

Is such a thing even possible? Doesn't there have to be an overwhelmingly convincing element that comes into play before such a belief can take place? And why would we settle on that particular element rather than some other element, which might not be convincing at all? Wouldn't picking that convincing element because that's what it is, be stacking the deck? And how would we become aware of such an element?



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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.

Post #11

Post by Aetixintro »

[Replying to Aetixintro in post #2]

Regarding my claim on religious people and Atheists/non-believers, it's backed by brain chemistry (blood samples/blood in the head-scanning, right side) and AI analysis. I agree that searching, young Atheists and non-believers are "statistical outliers" and are likely to fall in line later in time.

Good? 8-)
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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.

Post #12

Post by Tcg »

Aetixintro wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:42 am
Regarding my claim on religious people and Atheists/non-believers, it's backed by brain chemistry (blood samples/blood in the head-scanning, right side) and AI analysis.
Simply claiming what you suggest backs up your claim, isn't a presentation of evidence.
I agree that searching, young Atheists and non-believers are "statistical outliers" and are likely to fall in line later in time.
This is nothing but another unsupported claim and includes zero evidence.

Good? 8-)
Not even close.


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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.

Post #13

Post by Miles »

Aetixintro wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:42 am [Replying to Aetixintro in post #2]

Regarding my claim on religious people and Atheists/non-believers,

["Healthy people become religious and (technically) insane [people] become Atheist and non-believers. IMO."]

it's backed by brain chemistry (blood samples/blood in the head-scanning, right side) and AI analysis.
A silly remark of course, but I am curious as to why you would make such a claim. If you honestly believe that what you say here is because of something you've read, please share your sources. If you have no such evidence then the alternatives are completely understandable.


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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.

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Post by Ionian_Tradition »

Miles wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:11 pm .


Assuming choice is possible, how does a person go about freely choosing to believe in god?

Is such a thing even possible? Doesn't there have to be an overwhelmingly convincing element that comes into play before such a belief can take place? And why would we settle on that particular element rather than some other element, which might not be convincing at all? Wouldn't picking that convincing element because that's what it is, be stacking the deck? And how would we become aware of such an element?



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It seems to me that belief is, at bottom, a disposition. Dispositions, by their very nature, are not the products of choice but are instead objects of conscious experience of which we become aware and which seem to play some causal role in influencing how, or what, we choose.

For example, I did not select my belief that a computer sits before me upon which I could, in principle, type this sentence. Nor can I choose to genuinely believe that no such computer exists. Rather, I have become aware of the fact that I do believe my computer exists and it is this belief which serves as a causal precursor to my choice to begin typing.

As it is with my belief in my computer, so it is (as far as I can tell) with all beliefs.

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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.

Post #15

Post by mgb »

There are many arguments for and against the existence of God but the decision for belief in God is not, generally speaking, an intellectual one based on abstract argument. It is deeper than that. The intellectual arguments are post hoc justifications for one's position for or against belief in God.

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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.

Post #16

Post by Miles »

Ionian_Tradition wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:33 am
Miles wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:11 pm .


Assuming choice is possible, how does a person go about freely choosing to believe in god?

Is such a thing even possible? Doesn't there have to be an overwhelmingly convincing element that comes into play before such a belief can take place? And why would we settle on that particular element rather than some other element, which might not be convincing at all? Wouldn't picking that convincing element because that's what it is, be stacking the deck? And how would we become aware of such an element?



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It seems to me that belief is, at bottom, a disposition.
And I disagree. I consider belief to be a conscious acceptance of something that lacks evidence enough to be considered a fact.


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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.

Post #17

Post by Ionian_Tradition »

Miles wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:28 pm
Ionian_Tradition wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:33 am
Miles wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:11 pm .


Assuming choice is possible, how does a person go about freely choosing to believe in god?

Is such a thing even possible? Doesn't there have to be an overwhelmingly convincing element that comes into play before such a belief can take place? And why would we settle on that particular element rather than some other element, which might not be convincing at all? Wouldn't picking that convincing element because that's what it is, be stacking the deck? And how would we become aware of such an element?



.
It seems to me that belief is, at bottom, a disposition.
And I disagree. I consider belief to be a conscious acceptance of something that lacks evidence enough to be considered a fact.


.
Genuine mental assent is not a choice. If you doubt this, you need only refer to your own inability to choose (in this very moment) to genuinely accept as true any belief you sincerely hold to be false.

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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.

Post #18

Post by Miles »

Ionian_Tradition wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:33 am
Miles wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:28 pm
Ionian_Tradition wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:33 am
Miles wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:11 pm .


Assuming choice is possible, how does a person go about freely choosing to believe in god?

Is such a thing even possible? Doesn't there have to be an overwhelmingly convincing element that comes into play before such a belief can take place? And why would we settle on that particular element rather than some other element, which might not be convincing at all? Wouldn't picking that convincing element because that's what it is, be stacking the deck? And how would we become aware of such an element?



.
It seems to me that belief is, at bottom, a disposition.
And I disagree. I consider belief to be a conscious acceptance of something that lacks evidence enough to be considered a fact.


.
Genuine mental assent is not a choice. If you doubt this, you need only refer to your own inability to choose (in this very moment) to genuinely accept as true any belief you sincerely hold to be false.
Never said choice was involved. The acceptance is wholly determined.


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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.

Post #19

Post by Ionian_Tradition »

Miles wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:21 pm
Ionian_Tradition wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:33 am
Miles wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:28 pm
Ionian_Tradition wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:33 am
Miles wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:11 pm .


Assuming choice is possible, how does a person go about freely choosing to believe in god?

Is such a thing even possible? Doesn't there have to be an overwhelmingly convincing element that comes into play before such a belief can take place? And why would we settle on that particular element rather than some other element, which might not be convincing at all? Wouldn't picking that convincing element because that's what it is, be stacking the deck? And how would we become aware of such an element?



.
It seems to me that belief is, at bottom, a disposition.
And I disagree. I consider belief to be a conscious acceptance of something that lacks evidence enough to be considered a fact.


.
Genuine mental assent is not a choice. If you doubt this, you need only refer to your own inability to choose (in this very moment) to genuinely accept as true any belief you sincerely hold to be false.
Never said choice was involved. The acceptance is wholly determined.


.
Then your disagreement with me (if indeed there is one) would seem rather trivial given that my aim was to show that belief is non-volitional (i.e. deterministic).

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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.

Post #20

Post by Miles »

Ionian_Tradition wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:52 am
Miles wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:21 pm
Ionian_Tradition wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:33 am
Miles wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:28 pm
Ionian_Tradition wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:33 am
Miles wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:11 pm .


Assuming choice is possible, how does a person go about freely choosing to believe in god?

Is such a thing even possible? Doesn't there have to be an overwhelmingly convincing element that comes into play before such a belief can take place? And why would we settle on that particular element rather than some other element, which might not be convincing at all? Wouldn't picking that convincing element because that's what it is, be stacking the deck? And how would we become aware of such an element?



.
It seems to me that belief is, at bottom, a disposition.
And I disagree. I consider belief to be a conscious acceptance of something that lacks evidence enough to be considered a fact.


.
Genuine mental assent is not a choice. If you doubt this, you need only refer to your own inability to choose (in this very moment) to genuinely accept as true any belief you sincerely hold to be false.
Never said choice was involved. The acceptance is wholly determined.


.
Then your disagreement with me (if indeed there is one) would seem rather trivial given that my aim was to show that belief is non-volitional (i.e. deterministic).
Not trivial at all. You said that it seems to you that belief is, at bottom, a disposition, and I don't consider belief to be a disposition at all, but rather an acceptance.


Disposition being a person's inherent qualities of mind and character.
[source: Oxford Languages]


Acceptance being agreement with or belief in an idea, opinion, or explanation.
[source: Oxford Languages]






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