The Trouble With Faith

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Miles
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The Trouble With Faith

Post #1

Post by Miles »

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As a proclaimed concept faith is the excuse people give for believing something when they lack good reason for it. If they had good reason then such reason would be adequate and faith would be superfluous.

In fact, faith is not a pathway to establishing any kind of truth. Even having faith that something is true is on unsound ground---no better than flipping a coin. Why? Simply ask yourself, "Is there anything that can't be taken on faith?" Could you not take it on faith that fairies and gnomes live in the woods existing on lichens and mold? Of course you could. Would that faith make it true? Of course not. So right away one's faith could just as easily be false as true---go ahead, flip your coin.

Consequently, faith is not a virtue, but a flaw in one's belief system, likely the result of gullibility. "I don't have to have evidence or good reason to believe Martians landed in my back yard (or that I'm going to heaven), I can simply take it on faith and therefore declare or honestly believe it to be true."

Thing is, it is evidence and logic that determine whether or not our perception of reality is reasonable and in conjunction with the world as it is. In the end, other than occasionally providing a false sense of security, faith is a worthless, perhaps even a crippling concept.


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Tcg
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Re: The Trouble With Faith

Post #11

Post by Tcg »

[Replying to Dimmesdale in post #7]

Which is of course the equivalent of this:

Image

The fact that George Muller was a few days older changes nothing. George Michaels sang a similar tune.


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Re: The Trouble With Faith

Post #12

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Miles wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:40 pm As a proclaimed concept faith is the excuse people give for believing something when they lack good reason for it. If they had good reason then such reason would be adequate and faith would be superfluous.
Ultimately, faith is all we have in this context.

I have faith that if I jump me out a tree, a splat'll soon be heard. It'd take just the one time where I jumped out and landed softly and silently on the moon to alter my faith.

I have faith that 2+2=4, but concede that 2 banjos plus 2 frogs doesn't equal 4 calling birds.
In fact, faith is not a pathway to establishing any kind of truth. Even having faith that something is true is on unsound ground---no better than flipping a coin. Why? Simply ask yourself, ["Is there anything that can't be taken on faith?"
In this context, all things are taken on faith. We accept, by faith alone, that what we believe to be true, is.
Could you not take it on faith that fairies and gnomes live in the woods existing on lichens and mold? Of course you could. Would that faith make it true? Of course not. So right away one's faith could just as easily be false as true---go ahead, flip your coin.
I take it on faith that humans landed on the moon. I see video, and I hear claims, but in the final analysis, I ain't been there to make plaster casts of the bootprints on it, that I might compare to the boots folks wore about it.

Faith.
Consequently, faith is not a virtue, but a flaw in one's belief system, likely the result of gullibility. "I don't have to have evidence or good reason to believe Martians landed in my back yard (or that I'm going to heaven), I can simply take it on faith and therefore declare or honestly believe it to be true."
Faith is as virtuous as what one's being all faithy about.

My faith in them grandgirls agrowing up to be good and virtuous, is a virtue in itself.
Thing is, it is evidence and logic that determine whether or not our perception of reality is reasonable and in conjunction with the world as it is. In the end, other than occasionally providing a false sense of security, faith is a worthless, perhaps even a crippling concept.
And you'll only ever show this opinion you present to be based on none other'n your faith on it being correct.

"Perception is reality". In your reality, what you perceive to be "non-faith based" is purely it the product of your faith in your own perception, your faith in your ability to interpret that perception accurately, and your faith that astirring it all up, you've come you to a non-faith based, now follow me here, faith in your own abilities.

On my own perceptions, my own faiths...
I suffer the sounds hearing, and more rarely the sights seeing. Nigh on daily, I hear words and sentences and thoughts and ideas. I don't mean I think em, I hear em. There's data available to suggest such a condition is a physical event occurring within my own brain. That should I be hooked me up to certain devices, there can be seen that my own brain is "hearing" that which never got it spoke.

So then, do I trust my own brain, my own perception, when it tells me to kill myself? Do I trust my own brain, my own perception, when it tells me the world'll be better off without me? What faith do I put in my own perceptions?

Or do I trust my brain when it says to chase me the pretty thing round the pool table? Do I trust my perception when it says to just try to be a good guy, and don't kill me nobody?


Faith, in all it's miserable glory is all we have.

Beyond our faith in the seeking to do what's right and good.
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

- William

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Re: The Trouble With Faith

Post #13

Post by Purple Knight »

My issue with faith is specifically the issue of having faith in morality. Faith isn't a magic word that means you can't be wrong. Suppose there is a God and he's moral by definition you have doubts, but you're told, have faith. Well how do you know your faith is going toward the moral being and not an immoral one? If you're just trusting, who says you're trusting the right guy? Can Lucifer not also say, "Have faith!" and if it's a trump card and ought to make you bow to it, why doesn't it work now?

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Re: The Trouble With Faith

Post #14

Post by nobspeople »

Purple Knight wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:59 pm My issue with faith is specifically the issue of having faith in morality. Faith isn't a magic word that means you can't be wrong. Suppose there is a God and he's moral by definition you have doubts, but you're told, have faith. Well how do you know your faith is going toward the moral being and not an immoral one? If you're just trusting, who says you're trusting the right guy? Can Lucifer not also say, "Have faith!" and if it's a trump card and ought to make you bow to it, why doesn't it work now?
Reminded me of the saying: "Faith is only as good as to what it's put in". Or something like that.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: The Trouble With Faith

Post #15

Post by mac_ »

Miles wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:40 pm .



As a proclaimed concept faith is the excuse people give for believing something when they lack good reason for it. If they had good reason then such reason would be adequate and faith would be superfluous.

In fact, faith is not a pathway to establishing any kind of truth. Even having faith that something is true is on unsound ground---no better than flipping a coin. Why? Simply ask yourself, "Is there anything that can't be taken on faith?" Could you not take it on faith that fairies and gnomes live in the woods existing on lichens and mold? Of course you could. Would that faith make it true? Of course not. So right away one's faith could just as easily be false as true---go ahead, flip your coin.

Consequently, faith is not a virtue, but a flaw in one's belief system, likely the result of gullibility. "I don't have to have evidence or good reason to believe Martians landed in my back yard (or that I'm going to heaven), I can simply take it on faith and therefore declare or honestly believe it to be true."

Thing is, it is evidence and logic that determine whether or not our perception of reality is reasonable and in conjunction with the world as it is. In the end, other than occasionally providing a false sense of security, faith is a worthless, perhaps even a crippling concept.


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I'd describe what you're referring to as "blind faith". Certainly, having no reason behind faith is irrational. However, people do have reasonable faith in all sorts of things, which are not guaranteed to happen.
Non-religious theist.

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Re: The Trouble With Faith

Post #16

Post by Miles »

mac_ wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:46 pm
Miles wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:40 pm .



As a proclaimed concept faith is the excuse people give for believing something when they lack good reason for it. If they had good reason then such reason would be adequate and faith would be superfluous.

In fact, faith is not a pathway to establishing any kind of truth. Even having faith that something is true is on unsound ground---no better than flipping a coin. Why? Simply ask yourself, "Is there anything that can't be taken on faith?" Could you not take it on faith that fairies and gnomes live in the woods existing on lichens and mold? Of course you could. Would that faith make it true? Of course not. So right away one's faith could just as easily be false as true---go ahead, flip your coin.

Consequently, faith is not a virtue, but a flaw in one's belief system, likely the result of gullibility. "I don't have to have evidence or good reason to believe Martians landed in my back yard (or that I'm going to heaven), I can simply take it on faith and therefore declare or honestly believe it to be true."

Thing is, it is evidence and logic that determine whether or not our perception of reality is reasonable and in conjunction with the world as it is. In the end, other than occasionally providing a false sense of security, faith is a worthless, perhaps even a crippling concept.


.
I'd describe what you're referring to as "blind faith". Certainly, having no reason behind faith is irrational. However, people do have reasonable faith in all sorts of things, which are not guaranteed to happen.
Then such reasonableness should suffice to take it out of the category of "faith" and at least put it into the category of "belief." "Faith" can be scratched off the list of Categories of Trust. "Reasonable faith" simply amounts to "belief."....... As I said:

"Faith is the excuse people give for believing something when they lack good reason for it. If they had good reason then such reason would be adequate and faith would be superfluous.


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