Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Argue for and against religions and philosophies which are not Christian

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Online
User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 10556
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 503 times
Been thanked: 1151 times
Contact:

Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #1

Post by William »

Assuming for argument sake that it is possible for the universe to exist without intelligent design...

In what way is atheism still a better position to assume? In what way is atheism more likely to be truer than Deism?

One of the most popular arguments I ever come across for atheism over any type of theism usually goes along the lines of "if I were god, I would want to interact with my creation rather than stay absent like the Deistic god, and since there is no evidence of GOD existing through interaction, atheism is still the preferred position to have, because the deist GOD is absent anyway, so might as well not exist."

So, in what way is atheism more likely truer than Deism?

Or, are the two positions so similar that they are not even in conflict with each other and may as well be the same thing?

After all, a deist idea of GOD in relation to this universe, might as well not exist. Which is precisely the atheist position on the subject of GOD.

Thoughts?

User avatar
Miles
Prodigy
Posts: 3398
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 266 times
Been thanked: 942 times

Re: Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #61

Post by Miles »

Athetotheist wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 8:38 pm
Miles wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 12:42 am
Athetotheist wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 8:42 pm
oldbadger wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 5:17 am
Athetotheist wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:05 pm [Replying to oldbadger in post #38
if any Deist believes in an involved or aware Deity then they've just left Deism
Wrong. The core tenet of Deism is not that the creator is uninvolved. The core tenet of Deism is that the creator can be discerned by each individual through nature and reason without the aid of special revelation through any individual or group. That's it.

You're falling for a mischaracterization of Deism often employed by the uninformed.
No....
Where did you dig all that up from?
Deism is 'everything, force and anything is together, the whole, but a whole so vast that it's quite unaware of this planet, solar system, or even this universe.'
You can quote me if you like. :)
I didn't "dig" it up; I looked it up. Here it is again, in case you missed it in post #27:

https://www.deism.com/post/deism-defined-article-1
I'd be careful of my sources.
Looking up your linked source, this relatively recent religious upstart, formally called The World Union of Deists, and founded in Charlottesville, Virginia on April 10, 1993, by Robert Johnson, appears to be a Scientology wanna be that redefines terms to fit its rather odd "theology'." Making an internet splash in 2021 this somewhat poorly written website tells us that,

"Deism Is . . .

Knowledge of God based on
the application of our reason on
the designs/laws found
throughout Nature and the
beautiful Universe. The designs
presuppose a Designer. Deism is
therefore a natural religion /
spiritual philosophy and is not a
"revealed" religion.

Compare this to the common definition of the term.

de·ism
/ˈdēˌizəm,ˈdāˌizəm/
noun: deism
belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind.
You should be less interested in the "common" definition and more interested in a correct definition, which isn't so cut-and-dried.
Why is that? Common parlance almost demands that common definitions take precedent over any kind of obscure definition that's asserted to be thee "correct" definition. And just why is your particular definition more correct than any other? Neo-diesm is a Johhny-come-lately religion (only 29 years old if I recall) and any terms it redefines certainly don't carry the weight of long established definitions.

Isn't there a rule on this forum to the effect that if someone self-identifes as being of a certain creed, that self-identification is to be accepted?
I don't recall any such rule, but I suppose it may exist. Is there somebody here who here hasn't accepted someone's creedal self-identification?


.

User avatar
oldbadger
Sage
Posts: 731
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:11 am
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #62

Post by oldbadger »

It seems as if even Deism is splitting up in to a variety of definitions .
For me, Deism is simply an acceptance that everything is part of the whole, and that Nature is the ruling force around here.

All this pretence that we can perceive how it came about is just that...pretension.

Athetotheist
Guru
Posts: 1174
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:24 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 176 times

Re: Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #63

Post by Athetotheist »

oldbadger wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 6:11 am It seems as if even Deism is splitting up in to a variety of definitions .
For me, Deism is simply an acceptance that everything is part of the whole, and that Nature is the ruling force around here.

All this pretence that we can perceive how it came about is just that...pretension.
That's part of the beauty of Deism----Deists can have differing opinions on the nature of a creator, and there's no such thing as "Deist Fundamentalism".

User avatar
oldbadger
Sage
Posts: 731
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:11 am
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #64

Post by oldbadger »

Athetotheist wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:14 pm That's part of the beauty of Deism----Deists can have differing opinions on the nature of a creator, and there's no such thing as "Deist Fundamentalism".
Agreed. :)
One 'thing' about Deism that most Deists can accept is that Nature is the force and power around here.

Post Reply