The Koran agrees that Jesus was born from a virgin and Mohammed was not
The Koran agrees that Jesus did miracles but makes no mention of any miracles Mohammed did
The Koran agrees that a prophet can never lie. Jesus called Himself Son of God and even God Himself on many occasions and also accepted worship from people.
The Koran agrees that Jesus is the Messiah and Mohammed is not.
So, from this, it must be concluded that Jesus is a superior prophet than Mohammed.
Jesus is a superior prophet to Mohammed
Moderator: Moderators
Post #81
Your are blatently wrong. You are using the Bible as your standard for belief.van wrote: Jesus was the message Mohammad was a messanger.
In Islam Jesus and Muhammad are both messengers, both prophets of God.
You are yet wrong again. There is no such thing as Original Sin in Islam. That is a man made doctrine by the Christian saint Augustine.van wrote: If you were to take both Quran and hadith and the Holy Bible as truth we see that Jesus is the only sinless being ever born and very special even according to the Quran.
Every Child in Islam is born sinless
Yes Muhammad prayed to Allah, so did Jesus and every other prophet. Jesus is not God and you would be blatently foolish to think Islam supports the ideology of Paul.van wrote: Mohammad was a warlord and even the Quran told him to ask forgiveness for his sins.
Yes, Jesus is one of the greatest prophets in Islam, no doubt. To be a muslim you have to believe in Jesus. Not the mythological Jesus Paul and Constantine believed in.van wrote: All the things that the quran says about Jesus:
That is like comparing Jesus to the AntiChrist.van wrote: Who one needs to compare Mohammad to is Paul.
Paul is a deceiver.
He abolished the Mosaic Law(Gods Law) and called it a curse.
He received supposed "visions" of Jesus telling him to abolish the law of Moses, when infact that would contradict the statement of Jesus when he said "Think i have not come to abolish the law"
Van you are assuming too much and using quotations of the Quran out of context.
Jesus was a messenger, Muhammad was a messenger and the messege was Allah.(The sole single deity of Abraham)
As there is only one God. The Trinity does not exist, its a man made doctrine using 'interpretation' of unverified texts found in the bible.
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.
(Quran 29:2-3)
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Why Jesus is NOT God
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We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.
(Quran 29:2-3)
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Why Jesus is NOT God
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Post #82
Also may i add, van, if you actually read the Quran, not just quote a few passages from an anti-islamic website you wouldve come across:
"Say ye: 'We believe in God and the revelation given to us and to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord. We make no difference between one and another of them, and we bow to God.' " Chapter 2, Verse 136
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.
(Quran 29:2-3)
----
Why Jesus is NOT God
---
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.
(Quran 29:2-3)
----
Why Jesus is NOT God
---
- Joshua Patrick
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Post #83
Your are blatently wrong. You are using the Bible as your standard for belief.
In Islam Jesus and Muhammad are both messengers, both prophets of God.
Moses and Jesus are embraced and reinterpreted by Islam, but they did not preach or teach the dictates of Islam. Islam was only founded by Muhammad in 622 AD. Although he argued that his was a restoration or purification of Judaism, historical research shows this contention cannot be sustained. Islam represented something new, although with many borrowed elements. Angered when Christian monks uncharitably expelled him as stupid from their community, Muhammad set off to create his own religion.
Jesus of Islam is not the same Jesus of Christianity. Nor is Moses of Judiasm.
Post #84
Ofcourse Jesus is God in Christianity.Joshua Patrick wrote: Jesus of Islam is not the same Jesus of Christianity. Nor is Moses of Judiasm.
Jesus is different in Christianity, i dont see how Moses is significantly different in Islam.
Moses, Jesus, Muhammad.Joshua Patrick wrote: Moses and Jesus are embraced and reinterpreted by Islam, but they did not preach or teach the dictates of Islam.
They werent only prophets, they were also messengers who brought forth new religious law.
Not only Judaism, also Christianity.Joshua Patrick wrote: Islam was only founded by Muhammad in 622 AD. Although he argued that his was a restoration or purification of Judaism,
Actually it can be sustained very well, with religious sources.Joshua Patrick wrote: ...historical research shows this contention cannot be sustained.
The Quran tells us, the Torah and the Gospel were both changed from their original state, and thus God being the most mercyful, sent us another prophet to erase confusion and corruption.
A clear sign the Torah had been changed is the rejection of Jesus being the Messiah. The Original Torah was later on edited, and thus Jesus did not fit the description of the Messiah:
Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
The hebrew manuscripts in which the Bible is derived from, differ in the sequence of events, and also on what exactly happened at the alleged crucifiction.
The RSV Bible, that is written by some of the worlds most knowledgable Christian scholars tell us:
"The word "Begotten" in the 4 gospels is a concoction as it does not exist in the most ancient manuscripts"
Actually no, Muhammad had great respect for Christian monks who dedicated their whole lives to service God.Joshua Patrick wrote: Islam represented something new, although with many borrowed elements. Angered when Christian monks uncharitably expelled him as stupid from their community, Muhammad set off to create his own religion.
Prophet Muhammad sent a message to the monks of Saint Catherine's Monastery, Mount Sinai:
"This is a message written by Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, far and near, we are behind them. Verily, I defend them by myself, the servants, the helpers, and my followers, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be changed from their jobs, nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they (Christians) are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, this is not to take place without her own wish. She is not to be prevented from going to her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation is to disobey this covenant till the Day of Judgment and the end of the world.�
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.
(Quran 29:2-3)
----
Why Jesus is NOT God
---
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.
(Quran 29:2-3)
----
Why Jesus is NOT God
---
- Pazuzu bin Hanbi
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Post #85
Actually, no. If you read the Qur’ân in its original ‘Arabi, it states that Jews’ and Christians’ interpretations of their texts ended up corrupted, not the texts themselves.Murad wrote:The Quran tells us, the Torah and the Gospel were both changed from their original state.
The Crucifixion takes place in the New Testament, which its authors wrote in Greek, not Hebrew. The Tanakh, condescendingly referred to as the ‘old Testament’, takes place in Hebrew (with smatterings of Aramaic), and doesn’t directly refer to Jesus at all.Murad wrote:The hebrew manuscripts in which the Bible is derived from, differ in the sequence of events, and also on what exactly happened at the alleged crucifiction.
لا إلـــــــــــــــــــــــــــه
Post #86
Whether it was error by interpretation, or error by copying or even intentional, muslim scholars agree that the Bible has been corrupted from its Original state.Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote: Actually, no. If you read the Qur’ân in its original ‘Arabi, it states that Jews’ and Christians’ interpretations of their texts ended up corrupted, not the texts themselves.
You are right, i was thinking of the Torah when i wrote 'hebrew'.Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote: The Crucifixion takes place in the New Testament, which its authors wrote in Greek, not Hebrew. The Tanakh, condescendingly referred to as the ‘old Testament’, takes place in Hebrew (with smatterings of Aramaic), and doesn’t directly refer to Jesus at all.
The Greek manuscripts differ from one another, also the word "Begotten" in the 4 gospels does not exist in the most ancient Greek manuscripts. It is in favour with Islamic Ideology that the texts were changed over time.
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.
(Quran 29:2-3)
----
Why Jesus is NOT God
---
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.
(Quran 29:2-3)
----
Why Jesus is NOT God
---
- Pazuzu bin Hanbi
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- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:54 pm
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Post #87
So you disagree with me? How about this…Murad wrote:Whether it was error by interpretation, or error by copying or even intentional, muslim scholars agree that the Bible has been corrupted from its Original state.
4:46
Among Jews are some who distort the words of revelation from their context.
5:13
They twist words from their context, and have forgotten a portion of what they were asked to remember.
5:41
They distort words from already established contexts.
××× Now, please bring me Qur’ânic sources only which show that people of the book have actually corrupted the texts themselves! ×××
Pardon me, I tend to be a bit of a stickler for correct labelling, etc. By Tanakh I refer to what Christians call the ‘Old Testament’. Tanakh means the entirety of the Jewish Bible. The Torah forms a part of Tanakh. Indeed, the ‘T’ in Tanakh stands for Torah .Murad wrote:You are right, i was thinking of the Torah when i wrote 'hebrew'.
لا إلـــــــــــــــــــــــــــه
Post #88
Well im sure you have read the Quran, and the Quran claims to be the truth.Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote: ××× Now, please bring me Qur’ânic sources only which show that people of the book have actually corrupted the texts themselves! ×××
Logically, if events differ in the other religious scriptures, it makes them false based on the Quran. E.g. Isaac & Ishmael sacrifice.
But because the Quran says in numerous verses, that the Torah and the Gospel was the truth, they must of been corrupted.
That is the conclusion.
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.
(Quran 29:2-3)
----
Why Jesus is NOT God
---
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.
(Quran 29:2-3)
----
Why Jesus is NOT God
---
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Post #89
Wow, Muslims scholars agree. No Bias can be in play there, can it? It's the good old 'Let's bash the opposition, so it makes our stuff look better' tactic.Murad wrote:Whether it was error by interpretation, or error by copying or even intentional, muslim scholars agree that the Bible has been corrupted from its Original state.Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote: Actually, no. If you read the Qur’ân in its original ‘Arabi, it states that Jews’ and Christians’ interpretations of their texts ended up corrupted, not the texts themselves.
One logical fallacy that keeps on being done by religious fundamentalists is they think that if they prove the opposition wrong, it makes their idea automatically right. It doesn't.
It does show that the attitudes to the scriptures are totally different..
And, I bet those same 'scholars' will claim there is no such problem with the Koran, even while they are killing each other over differences in interpretations.
I bet you will find comments about some form of Islam calling another form of Islam 'not true Muslim'..
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�
Steven Novella
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Post #90
As somebody stated the NT was written Greek, actually it was Koine Greek. Although technically the gospels were written in Aramiac the language of Christ, but the originals have been lost through time, "or the Vatican tend not to share with protestants"The hebrew manuscripts in which the Bible is derived from, differ in the sequence of events, and also on what exactly happened at the alleged crucifiction.
Care to go into more detail, what do you mean "the bible has been corrupted from its original state". You mean the message of Christianity as been corrupted or the original scriptures? Care to show evidence aswell, apart from the Koran.Whether it was error by interpretation, or error by copying or even intentional, muslim scholars agree that the Bible has been corrupted from its Original state.