What is god?

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laxdaela
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What is god?

Post #1

Post by laxdaela »

What is god?


This is a question too broad to be addressed directly. If you're speaking of God as found in the Christian, Muslim or various other monotheistic faiths then you are generally speaking of the singular omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent being responsible for the creation and continued existence of the universe and its inhabitants. For us to understand this question we must seek to understand these concepts and how they relate. The first two are seemingly straightforward and can be defined rather briefly. Omniscience, the knowledge of all things. Omnipotence, the ability to do all things. Omnipresence, however, is often under sold. To be everywhere is not merely one's ability to be at any and all points in the physical universe for our universe consists of not three but four perceivable dimensions. An omnipresent being is everywhere and everywhen. With these three definitions in mind we can only begin to grasp what may be possible. With these separate definitions some would assume that we have answered our original question, however, there is further data to add to the equation. We have our history, our world and ourselves. We cannot define God without men. Color may be known to exist but to a world of blind men would it have meaning much less the beauty inherent in a sunset? For a meaningful definition of God to be built it must convey not merely the sum of the parts but also intent, purpose, motivation. The waitress who served your dinner at your last outing may have been attentive or sloppy, cheerful or melancholy but almost certainly just your waitress. It is likely that this is all you will ever know of her. She could have been a mother working that particular shift to earn extra money for a child she dearly loves or a sadistic woman with no family or loved ones other than herself and, by the way, spat in your coffee or mashed potatoes before leaving the kitchen. Intent, purpose and motivation are as much defining characteristics as ability. How can we know God's motives? We know what goes on here, in our lives and around us. There are many beautiful things in this world. Things that are beautiful to us anyway. A flower is one of nature's wonders... but only to us. A flower is also dinner, a source of nectar or fodder for a nest. There are many horrible things, acts so terrible that they defy comprehension. And yet these are as much a part of creation as those flowers or sunsets. I recently saw a news story retelling the rape and murder of a seven-year-old girl by five of her older sister's friends. Now, there are among us those who say ' God has a plan for everyone.' or 'God works in mysterious ways.' but these are cop-outs. For an honest depiction we must include everything, even acts as sickening as this, because while God's motives may be unfathomable we do know that, since he is omnipotent and omniscient, everything happens as God intended. God knows everything, not just things that are happening now but those that will happen and this was true before he chose to create and being all powerful it is not possible but to create things so that they happen as he intends them to. There can be no benevolent or righteous motive in such an act and the disparity between such villainous acts as this, the wonders of nature and the selflessness shown by many people every day is too great to reconcile. At this point many of you are citing the bible's assertions of man's free will. Can free will have meaning when God knew when he brought about existence and every choice we would make and created the situations in which we would make them? We must each set about to satisfy ourselves of God's intent and motivation based on what we see of the world around us. Since it is true that no two people perceive the world the same way, can it be true that no two people perceive the same God?

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Post #11

Post by Euphrates »

goat wrote: I would tell Anselm 'You keep saying that, but I don't think you know what that means'.
haha, he'd probably admit as much.

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Post #12

Post by The Fallen Adam »

I decied that the God/Gods I choose to follow are all about Karma, no matter who they are.

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Re: What is god?

Post #13

Post by jpalmaer »

[Replying to post 1 by laxdaela]

My personal belief is:
"All is. God is. All in God, God in All. God is All."

God is by this definition everything everywhere anytime.

Also believe that God is the Creator and Sustainer of All. The original cause behind and beyond All. All the reality can be described as a process, and God is the director of all this.

Is God personal or impersonal? I would prefer to say that "God is All", which implies that he's both personal and impersonal. You cannot compare God with a human being. You cannot make any proper image of him, that make any sence.

God is everywhere (omniprecent) and all-powerful (omniscent).

God is oneness: "God is the All and the Only".

God is also good, but possibly also evil (i.e. not omnibenevolent).
By this indicate a potential dysfunctionionality in the entire reality - the All.

I'm also some skeptical in all this, and believe that we don't know why everything happens and why God are doing or not doing whatsoever.

And also some liberal, in that way that I dp not believe that any religious scripture, faith, or doctrine completely or fully properly can describe or express the entire concept of God and nature of All.

I sometimes call this entire viewpoint: Skeptical Panendystheism.

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Re: What is god?

Post #14

Post by McCulloch »

jpalmaer wrote: [Replying to post 1 by laxdaela]

My personal belief is:
"All is. God is. All in God, God in All. God is All."

God is by this definition everything everywhere anytime.
And here I was thinking that the word universe had that meaning.
jpalmaer wrote: Also believe that God is the Creator and Sustainer of All. The original cause behind and beyond All. All the reality can be described as a process, and God is the director of all this.
Is God its own creator? Is god by your definition the universe itself or something outside of the universe which is necessary to sustain the universe?
jpalmaer wrote: Is God personal or impersonal? I would prefer to say that "God is All", which implies that he's both personal and impersonal. You cannot compare God with a human being. You cannot make any proper image of him, that make any sense.
Unless you throw out the rules of logic, this cannot be so. The question, "Is God personal?" means does God have the attributes of personhood: will, intent, emotion etc. If god has these attributes then god is personal. If not, then god is impersonal. Both is not an option. We say that humans are personal; we have will, intent and emotion. However, there are aspects of humans which are impersonal, the beating of our hearts, digestion, hair growth; yet we are not said to be both personal and impersonal.

As an ignostic, I fully agree with you that we cannot make any proper image of god that makes any sense. However, from that I conclude that it is meaningless to discuss that which makes no sense whatsoever.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Re: What is god?

Post #15

Post by jpalmaer »

McCulloch wrote:
jpalmaer wrote: [Replying to post 1 by laxdaela]

My personal belief is:
"All is. God is. All in God, God in All. God is All."

God is by this definition everything everywhere anytime.
And here I was thinking that the word universe had that meaning.

Comment: Universe is just a part of the Cosmos, and Cosmos potentially is a multiverse rather than a single Universe. And it possibly also exists something else beyond, besides, inside it. So Universe is possibly not the same as All.
jpalmaer wrote: Also believe that God is the Creator and Sustainer of All. The original cause behind and beyond All. All the reality can be described as a process, and God is the director of all this.
Is God its own creator? Is god by your definition the universe itself or something outside of the universe which is necessary to sustain the universe?

Comment: God is its own creator, the final cause behind everything including "himself". As above mentioned God is All, which include the entire Cosmos as well as all beyond that.
jpalmaer wrote: Is God personal or impersonal? I would prefer to say that "God is All", which implies that he's both personal and impersonal. You cannot compare God with a human being. You cannot make any proper image of him, that make any sense.
Unless you throw out the rules of logic, this cannot be so. The question, "Is God personal?" means does God have the attributes of personhood: will, intent, emotion etc. If god has these attributes then god is personal.
Comment: yes he has, so he's personal.

If not, then god is impersonal.
Comment: He's also a original cause and ultimate power. Which neither of us are. These are from my point-of-view impersonal attributes, since no human beings/persons have any of these attributes.

Both is not an option. We say that humans are personal; we have will, intent and emotion. However, there are aspects of humans which are impersonal, the beating of our hearts, digestion, hair growth; yet we are not said to be both personal and impersonal.

Comment: God does only have "similar" personality as persons, but not any body like any human beings. So personal in this entences only means mental personal attributes.

As an ignostic, I fully agree with you that we cannot make any proper image of god that makes any sense. However, from that I conclude that it is meaningless to discuss that which makes no sense whatsoever.
No comment.

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Post #16

Post by Burninglight »

People have some freaky concepts of God. I believe God made man in His image and likeness; therefore, God is Spirit, but very much like His human creation in that He can reason and Has His will. The difference is He is all powerful and all knowing and omnipresent. Many people have made God into their own image and likeness. God has given us a glimpse into His character through Jesus.

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Re: What is god?

Post #17

Post by McCulloch »

jpalmaer wrote: Universe is just a part of the Cosmos, and Cosmos potentially is a multiverse rather than a single Universe. And it possibly also exists something else beyond, besides, inside it. So Universe is possibly not the same as All.
Words are funny things. The word atom originally meant that hypothetical unit of matter which could not be further subdivided. When scientists discovered what we now call atoms, they decided to apply this word to those entities. Later we discovered that atoms could be divided, but the name had stuck and we are left with a misnomer. The word universe originally meant all that is. It now means something a bit less than that. So, is Cosmos the same as God?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Post #18

Post by jerrygg38 »

Euphrates wrote: Since no one else did, I'm going to go ahead and throw out the Anselm's definition of God:

God is "that than which no greater can be conceived".
In my studies over the years, I make models of God. One state of God is when God alone exists. This state of God is infinite possibilities. Another state of God is pure nothingness. This state has the potential to exist. In between these two states lies an infinite number of creations of God and the Universe. We cannot conceive of all the infinite number or creations, however we merely can look at a few to understand the creative power of God.
If God used up all of God's energy, God could create a universe without any trace of God. In this creation only the universe exists. However when one looks at the multi dimensional multi light speed solution we find that an infinite number of universes can exist where God exists at the highest light speed level atop all the lower light speed universes.
The idea that God is a man or human makes no sense. God is pure machine intelligence and is more like a computer system than human.

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Re: What is god?

Post #19

Post by heavensgate »

laxdaela wrote: What is
god?
Omnipresence, however, is often under sold. To be everywhere is not merely one's ability to be at any and all points in the physical universe for our universe consists of not three but four perceivable dimensions. An omnipresent being is everywhere and everywhen. With these three definitions in mind we can only begin to grasp what may be possible.
I agree, though I see it with the temporal nature of the universe in mind. Temporal in that it has it's limits in comparison with God. This is the problem we have I think, not so much the nature of God but our own natures, we measure everything from our own measure, we can't because of our own limits measure God.
I think this May be the laws against idolatry in the bible. The fact that we try to represent Him is to reduce Him to our level, transient.
How do you represent a God not held in by space, or time, where darkness is light around Him?
The closest representation perhaps if we can somehow see His character in the created order. He created, His art gives away some of His personality.
Most will agree it is both good and profound.

How can we know God's motives? We know what goes on here, in our lives and around us. There are many beautiful things in this world. Things that are beautiful to us anyway. A flower is one of nature's wonders... but only to us. A flower is also dinner, a source of nectar or fodder for a nest. There are many horrible things, acts so terrible that they defy comprehension.
And yet these are as much a part of creation as those flowers or sunsets. I recently saw a news story retelling the rape and murder of a seven-year-old girl by five of her older sister's friends. Now, there are among us those who say ' God has a plan for everyone.' or 'God works in mysterious ways.' but these are cop-outs. For an honest depiction we must include everything, even acts as sickening as this, because while God's motives may be unfathomable we do know that, since he is omnipotent and omniscient, everything happens as God intended. God knows everything, not just things that are happening now but those that will happen and this was true before he chose to create and being all powerful it is not possible but to create things so that they happen as he intends them to. There can be no benevolent or righteous motive in such an act and the disparity between such villainous acts as this, the wonders of nature and the selflessness shown by many people every day is too great to reconcile. At this point many of you are citing the bible's assertions of man's free will.

Unfortunately free will is a reality that will not go away. It contains a lot of explanatory power for a discussion like this. I see the free will more like independence from God, and if we all individually or as a race prefer that independence then there is much of our own making in what goes wrong. As CS Lewis states when we have God say to us "thy will be done" we have much to fear from ourselves.
I don't agree with the idea that God directs us all at all times. I am sure He could not care less if I decide to eat vegetables tonight, or for that matter if the waitress spits in my food. I am sure though He does care how I think and how I react to Him. This is the idea of reconciliation, the uniting together of two parties, both exercising their free will in doing so.
Can free will have meaning when God knew when he brought about existence and every choice we would make and created the situations in which we would make them?

I think as you have stated that God is also Everywhen, that God knows what choices we will make, He does not makes the choices for us. In this our free will chooses both good and evil, we still eat from that tree.

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Post #20

Post by Overcomer »

jpalmaer wrote:
I would prefer to say that "God is All", which implies that he's both personal and impersonal.
The Law of Non-Contradiction states that something cannot be one thing and its exact opposite at the same time. Therefore, to say that God is both personal and impersonal at the same time is to break the Law of Non-Contradiction. That makes the statement illogical and invalid.

I'd like to know where everyone's various ideas about God come from and what evidence do they have to support their "understanding" of God?

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