Could Islam be reformed?

[van]

There are so many supposed "misunderstanders" of Islam- the muslim terrorists that have been guided by the hateful and violent verses in the Quran and hadith.

Yet the Quran is supposed to be so straight forward???

So many Imam preaching hate, yet Islam is supposed to be about tolerance? What gives?

[Fatihah]

There are so many supposed "misunderstanders" of Islam- the muslim terrorists that have been guided by the hateful and violent verses in the Quran and hadith.

Yet the Quran is supposed to be so straight forward???

So many Imam preaching hate, yet Islam is supposed to be about tolerance? What gives?

Response: It becomes quite clear when reading the qur'an and sunnah in it's entirety that islam is a religion of peace. Yet when a people is provoked and oppressed, they react in violence and develop hatred. They use whatever it takes to achieve their agenda in defeating the oppressor or the people they've developed hatred for, even by using what is pure and good. In this case, the good which is being used islam. As such, many terrorists and Imams preaching hatred and causing unjust acts of violence in the name of islam occurs, as a result of the hatred in which they've developed from oppression and other forms of mistreatment done to themselves or what they were taught were done to their parents and loved ones, past and present.

[TheWayIsOne]

Furthermore, if you look towards the bigger and scholarly accepted understanding of Islam, rather than what one imam said it would become much easier to understand the truth. For example, all Islamic scholars agree and preach openly that for a person to kill himself in a suicide mission is strictly prohibited in Islam.

It was narrated and recorded in mulitple places that the Prophet said: “Whoever kills himself with something will be punished with that same thing on the Day of Resurrection.� Narrated by al-Bukhaari (5700) and Muslim (110).

and the Qurans says, "And do not kill your own selves" rather it is believed in Islam that a believer has to have patience and steadfastness when tried with difficulty in life and this patience and preserverence will be rewarded by God.

Furthermore the Prophet soldiers in the midst of battle from killing elderly, women, children, or even uprooting a tree that bears fruit, this is narrated and recorded in numerous sources. In another narration he stated that whoever kills a person who has a treaty with Muslims will never smell the fragrence of paradise, meaning he/she shall never enter it.

This is the understanding, with regards to this issue of killing or suicide bombing that all scholars past and present hold and this is the correct understanding. Those who understanding something other than that are very few and their views are publisized and made to seem like they might be mainstream, but this is very far from the truth.

[Pazuzu bin Hanbi]

No no no. English mistranslations to fit in with current topical debates about suicide terrorism. In fact, the Qur’an it says something more akin to “Do not, with your own hands, hurl yourself into destruction.� (2:195)

Also, could you please give a PROPER reference to the hadith you mention? A simple number doesn’t take account of where it has actually come from within Bukhâri. Please state the volume and book number of the hadith so I can look into that further. Thanks in advance.

[TheWayIsOne]

Your welcome, thanks for the dialogue.

You are referring to a different verse. The one I quoted is 5:29 and the translation is exactly as stated, in fact it can't be translated in any other way.

"And do not kill yourselves. Surely, God is Most Merciful to you." 5:29

There are many hadiths that have similar meaning to the one I mentioned. That particular narration can be found in the 'book of oaths and vows' in sahih al-Bukhari, the hadith is narrated by thabit bin ad-dahhak, there are similar narrations in the 'book of funerals' in Bukhari. There are other narrations in other books of hadith, clearly any form of suicide is not permissible in Islam, this is the view of all major scholars, including the most prominent scholars of our times such as Bin Baz, Uthaimeen, Albani, and many others.

If you look through any Islamic source of knowledge you would not find anything contrary to what I'm saying. Whoever understands anything other than that has gone way outside the bounds of Islam, and away from what the scholars have agreed upon. The unanimous agreement of the scholars is the 3rd source of legislation after the quran and the sunnah.

Off the subject, I would like to friendly welcome you to read this book http://www.islam-guide.com/ the entire book is on the site and its only about 50 or 60 pages. Quick read that sheds light on many issues with regards to Islam.

[Pazuzu bin Hanbi]

1. I am aware of plentiful online and offline resources on Islâm, considering I was born into a muslim family and was a devout believer. You, however, seem to have gotten a little mixed up: 5:29 says nothing along the lines of that which you have stated. Please point me to the original ‘Arabi or a translation you accept which says those words, because that section in surah 5 says nothing even approaching that phraseology, and refers — at any rate — to commands that allah gave to Jews.
   
   If, however, you refer to 4:29, then the ‘Arabi itself imparts more of a meaning whereby ‘yourselves’ is more like ‘each other’. Or are you relying solely on English translations and not the original ‘Arabi?
2. In addition, I can find nothing online, nor in my books of Sahih Bukhari in the ‘Arabi and Urdu translations, as well as the English one I have, which refer to killing yourselves in the book of Oaths & Vows. There are plentiful of references to killing people, and one hadith that states if you accuse a muslim of disbelief then it is akin to killing him — but nothing about killing yourselves.
   
   Also, in desperation, I actually quoted your words verbatim in google (exact phrase)… and it only brought up your words on this forum.
   
   Now… I’ve done all I can. All books of Ahadith are actually numbered consistently (none of this 5000 malarkey). Please provide the exact reference for the hadith you QUOTED, which I now quote to remind you of your words:
   
   “Whoever kills himself with something will be punished with that same thing on the Day of Resurrection.�
   
   Thanks in advance.

[TheWayIsOne]

I apologize, its 4:29 not 5:29. My mistake.

Here is the arabic.

وَلَا تَقْت�ل�وا أَن��سَك�مْ ۚ إ�نَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ ب�ك�مْ رَح�يمًا

translation as mentioned earlier. You can refer to the translation from quraan.com or any other translation.

As far as the hadith, I have a copy of Bukhari which is in arabic and english, but if you go to this site http://www.sahihalbukhari.com/sps/sbk/ search the word 'suicide' 12 hits will come up, the last one is hadith number 6232. the entire wording of the hadith is as follows,

he Prophet said, "Whoever swears by a religion other than Islam, is, as he says; and whoever commits suicide with something, will be punished with the same thing in the (Hell) Fire; and cursing a believer is like murdering him; and whoever accuses a believer of disbelief, then it is as if he had killed him."

good luck. Do you mind if I ask what caused you to leave religion ?

[Pazuzu bin Hanbi]

Thanks for that. I’d not encountered that hadith before, but considering the voluminous nature of ahadith that doesn’t surprise me! Incidentally, the ‘correct’ reference would be Volume 8, Book 78, Number 647.

This isn’t the correct place to discuss my turning away from religion. I can pm you or email you if you prefer.

[good]

Islam is a religion of peace and not a religion of terrorism, to fight injustice and unjust, and not of injustice

[Woland]

Islam is a religion of peace and not a religion of terrorism, to fight injustice and unjust, and not of injustice

Hello good,

1. Does a religion of peace threaten the people who leave it with death?

2. Do you disagree that many mainstream Islamic denominations proclaim that apostates should be killed while saying that Islam is a religion of peace?

3. Does a religion of peace prevent others from worshipping as they choose and from having equal rights when compared to the adherents of the "religion of peace"?

4. Do you disagree that many mainstream Islamic denominations proclaim that non-Muslims living in an Islamic republic should have less rights than Muslims?

Thank you

Woland