Question for Jews

[cholland]

I know this is a Christian passage, but I need help understanding what the author is getting at (in particular vs. 10-14):

Heb. 13:7-16
7Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith. 8Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. 9Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them. 10We have an altar from which those who serve the tent have no right to eat. 11For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy places by the high priest as a sacrifice for sin are burned outside the camp. 12So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood. 13Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured. 14For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come. 15 Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name. 16Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

I think cross reference to Lev. 16 and Ex. 33:7-8 may help. Again, I'm not looking for a debate, I just want to know what the Apostle was trying to convey to his readers.

(maybe this should be moved to Theology?)

[Goat]

I know this is a Christian passage, but I need help understanding what the author is getting at (in particular vs. 10-14):

Heb. 13:7-16
7Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith. 8Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. 9Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them. 10We have an altar from which those who serve the tent have no right to eat. 11For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy places by the high priest as a sacrifice for sin are burned outside the camp. 12So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood. 13Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured. 14For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come. 15 Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name. 16Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

I think cross reference to Lev. 16 and Ex. 33:7-8 may help. Again, I'm not looking for a debate, I just want to know what the Apostle was trying to convey to his readers.

(maybe this should be moved to Theology?)

Well, from what I am reading, it looks like this was written after the destruction of Jerusalem. .. and is trying to equate the crucifixion with the sacrifices that were done in the temple. The Temple might be destroyed, but the sacrifices that were done in the temple were replaced by Jesus' suffering on the Cross. It then also pushes such things as works (charity) as a replacement for the sacrifices to the temple.

[cholland]

I'm mostly confused on the inside/outside the camp argument. He seems to equate the blood inside the camp & bodies burned outside the camp with Jesus' sacrifice, but I'm lost. I thought maybe a Jew would have some insight on the inside/outside the camp part. Let's start with: why were the bodies burned outside?

[cnorman18]

During the time in the Wilderness, the sin offering was taken outside the camp and burned entirely, not inside the enclosure of the Tabernacle, where other offerings were burned (and parts of them withheld as food for the priests, which practice is alluded to here). The Crucifixion took place outside the walls of Jerusalem, which is here taken to be analogous; as is commonly seen, Christians consider the earlier sacrifices to be "types," prophecies-in-action, of the sacrifice of Jesus. The usual interpretation of this passage -- remember, it is in the Epistle to the Hebrews -- is that Jews should "leave the camp," i.e. leave their Judaism and membership in the Jewish community behind, and join with the Savior "outside the camp" since their Jewishness will no longer save them. I hope that helps.

I shall decline to give my opinion of that teaching as a Jew.

I've always thought it interesting that this is the one Epistle in the NT that really has no particular tradition regarding authorship. Some have suggested that this is because it may have been written by a woman, and the Church fathers left that information unstated because, though the ideas in the Epistle were judged valuable, women were not considered competent to be leaders in the Judaism of the day nor in the early Church.

[cholland]

During the time in the Wilderness, the sin offering was taken outside the camp and burned entirely, not inside the enclosure of the Tabernacle, where other offerings were burned (and parts of them withheld as food for the priests, which practice is alluded to here). The Crucifixion took place outside the walls of Jerusalem, which is here taken to be analogous; as is commonly seen, Christians consider the earlier sacrifices to be "types," prophecies-in-action, of the sacrifice of Jesus. The usual interpretation of this passage -- remember, it is in the Epistle to the Hebrews -- is that Jews should "leave the camp," i.e. leave their Judaism and membership in the Jewish community behind, and join with the Savior "outside the camp" since their Jewishness will no longer save them. I hope that helps.

I shall decline to give my opinion of that teaching as a Jew.

I've always thought it interesting that this is the one Epistle in the NT that really has no particular tradition regarding authorship. Some have suggested that this is because it may have been written by a woman, and the Church fathers left that information unstated because, though the ideas in the Epistle were judged valuable, women were not considered competent to be leaders in the Judaism of the day nor in the early Church.

Thank you for your thoughts. That makes sense. I was thinking along the lines that maybe "outside the camp" was an uncomfortable region for the Jew and so the writer was encouraging Christians to join Jesus outside the camp and not be afraid. This because "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." I like yours better.

Also interesting with the woman. I know Martin Luther attributed it to Apollos and others to Barnabas. The anonymity was due to persecution. I guess we'll never know.

[cnorman18]

During the time in the Wilderness, the sin offering was taken outside the camp and burned entirely, not inside the enclosure of the Tabernacle, where other offerings were burned (and parts of them withheld as food for the priests, which practice is alluded to here). The Crucifixion took place outside the walls of Jerusalem, which is here taken to be analogous; as is commonly seen, Christians consider the earlier sacrifices to be "types," prophecies-in-action, of the sacrifice of Jesus. The usual interpretation of this passage -- remember, it is in the Epistle to the Hebrews -- is that Jews should "leave the camp," i.e. leave their Judaism and membership in the Jewish community behind, and join with the Savior "outside the camp" since their Jewishness will no longer save them. I hope that helps.

I shall decline to give my opinion of that teaching as a Jew.

I've always thought it interesting that this is the one Epistle in the NT that really has no particular tradition regarding authorship. Some have suggested that this is because it may have been written by a woman, and the Church fathers left that information unstated because, though the ideas in the Epistle were judged valuable, women were not considered competent to be leaders in the Judaism of the day nor in the early Church.

Thank you for your thoughts. That makes sense. I was thinking along the lines that maybe "outside the camp" was an uncomfortable region for the Jew and so the writer was encouraging Christians to join Jesus outside the camp and not be afraid. This because "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." I like yours better.

Also interesting with the woman. I know Martin Luther attributed it to Apollos and others to Barnabas. The anonymity was due to persecution. I guess we'll never know.

My pleasure. As I've often said, my respect for the Christian religion remains, even though it is no longer my own.