Are ethnic Buddhists in the Far East atheists?

[Susma]

From stock knowledge I see that converts to Buddhists from among Westerners like Europeans and Americans keep saying that Buddhism is atheistic.

Here is an internet article stating that Asian Buddhists are not atheists.


My purpose here is to find out how Asian Buddhists are not atheistic, and how Westerners-atheists who take up with Buddhism are so self-congratulatory that Buddhism is atheistic.



First, befroe anything else I want to find out what is God for Asians who are ethnic Buddhists in the Far East, and what is God for Westerners-atheists like the ones in the US.


What do you say, fellow posters in this board on Non-Christian Religions and Philosophies, should we not first find out what is God for the Asian Buddhists and what is God for Westerners-atheists who take up with Buddhism?




Susma

[ThatGirlAgain]

From stock knowledge I see that converts to Buddhists from among Westerners like Europeans and Americans keep saying that Buddhism is atheistic.

Here is an internet article stating that Asian Buddhists are not atheists.

My purpose here is to find out how Asian Buddhists are not atheistic, and how Westerners-atheists who take up with Buddhism are so self-congratulatory that Buddhism is atheistic.

First, before anything else I want to find out what is God for Asians who are ethnic Buddhists in the Far East, and what is God for Westerners-atheists like the ones in the US.

What do you say, fellow posters in this board on Non-Christian Religions and Philosophies, should we not first find out what is God for the Asian Buddhists and what is God for Westerners-atheists who take up with Buddhism?

Susma

Are Asian Buddhists atheists? Depends on definition.

From a study of the discourses of the Buddha preserved in the Pali canon, it will be seen that the idea of a personal deity, a creator god conceived to be eternal and omnipotent, is incompatible with the Buddha's teachings. On the other hand, conceptions of an impersonal godhead of any description, such as world-soul, etc., are excluded by the Buddha's teachings on Anatta, non-self or unsubstantiality.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... didea.html

However in much of East Asian Buddhism there are definite supernatural elements.

Pure Land Buddhism… is a broad branch of Mah�y�na Buddhism and currently one of the most popular traditions of Buddhism in East Asia.
…
…a region offering respite from karmic transmigration. Amit�bha's pure land of Sukh�vatī is described in the Longer Sukh�vatīvyūha Sūtra as a land of beauty that surpasses all other realms. It is said to be inhabited by many gods, men, flowers, fruits, and adorned with wish-granting trees where rare birds come to rest.
…
Practitioners claim there is evidence of dying people going to the pure land, such as:

Knowing the time of death (�知時至): some prepare by bathing and reciting the name of the Buddha Amitabha.

The "Three Saints of the West" (西方三�): Amit�bha Buddha and the two bodhisattvas, Avalokiteśvara on his right and Mah�sth�mapr�pta on his left, appear and welcome the dying person. Visions of other buddhas or bodhisattvas are disregarded as they may be bad spirits disguising themselves, attempting to stop the person from entering the Pure Land.

Records of practicing Pure Land Buddhists who have died have been known to leave śarīr�, or relics, after cremation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Land_Buddhism

While the statistics on the prevalence of theism among Asian Buddhists is not that convincing – Japan, Taiwan and Singapore not being all that representative of East Asian culture – it is clear that the label atheism with its Western connotations of the denial of the supernatural is not generally applicable to Asian Buddhism.

[McCulloch]

First, before anything else I want to find out what is God for Asians who are ethnic Buddhists in the Far East, and what is God for Westerners-atheists like the ones in the US.

I agree with this approach. I would like to know what God is for anyone who makes any positive assertion about a god. In terms of Westerners-atheists, I know what god is for them. God isn't. That's what atheism means.

[Yishai]

I cannot speak for ethnic Far East Buddhists. I am a westerner; so, I can provide a little insight into that. God is typically seen as an imponderable. It is considered to be truly unknowable, and the pondering of God does not bring us any closer to the cessation of dukkha.

The poisoned arrow story is typically used to demonstrate the meaninglessness of this particular inquiry.

I would recommend a quick read of this sutta. It is rather short, I promise.

MN 63: Cula-Malunkyovada Sutta
The Shorter Instructions to Malunkyahttp://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

It all points toward the Buddhist focus on the now. What is happening now? What are my problems? How do I fix them? That is the way. We fix our dukkha first. Then we can ask questions and assign beliefs.

I cannot speak for asian-born buddhists, but I know that many western buddhists are atheistic or apatheistic. Apatheism is probably the closest to being "orthodox". One person's spiritual upbringing and culture will likely influence this one way or another. There are a few who are fervent atheists, and there are those who believe in a supreme being/oneness/force.

Personally, I am an apatheist. I do not know whether God exists or does not exist, and I do not care because it helps me in no tangible way.

"And why are they undeclared by me? Because they are not connected with the goal, are not fundamental to the holy life. They do not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calming, direct knowledge, self-awakening, Unbinding. That's why they are undeclared by me."

"And what is declared by me? 'This is stress,' is declared by me. 'This is the origination of stress,' is declared by me. 'This is the cessation of stress,' is declared by me. 'This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress,' is declared by me. And why are they declared by me? Because they are connected with the goal, are fundamental to the holy life. They lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calming, direct knowledge, self-awakening, Unbinding. That's why they are declared by me."

"So, Malunkyaputta, remember what is undeclared by me as undeclared, and what is declared by me as declared."

MN63

[john2054]

Hi everyone. I come on here with something of an interesting background. I was brought up an Atheist, with socialist parents. And so I almost naturally turned out a revolutionary. Then I broke my neck, and suffered ten days in a coma. And three months in hospital. Then i discovered Buddhism Buddha, (and to me God) through books. Then I fell mentally ill six years ago, and discovered God through my local chapel at my local hospital. Now for roughly the last six months have attended my local Methodist church, and am planning on getting baptised in January. But I still remember my Atheist and Buddhist roots. And i certainly still subscribe to Buddhism, seeing it more as a science then anything else. If anyone here wants to know about that Religion I will be more than happy to try and furnish them with any knowledge which I can still remember. Thanks for listening!

[Polyatheist]

Buddhism isn't a religion, that's a very common misconception. It is a way of thinking or a unique perspective on life without the ties of religion.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Buddhism isn't a religion, that's a very common misconception. It is a way of thinking or a unique perspective on life without the ties of religion.

Buddhism is definitely a religion for most people. I live in Bangkok, Thailand, and across the street from my apartment is a Buddhist shrine. Every day Buddhists say a prayer and leave offerings to Buddha on it such as money, incense, snacks and red Fanta (which is supposedly Buddha's favourite flavour). In return they hope for a successful day at work, safety for their family and home, good health, etc. If that isn't religion I don't know what is.

I think the misconception is that the more intellectual varieties of Buddhism that have made their way to the west are the same as the everyday Buddhism of many Asian countries.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

delete

[john2054]

Yes Fuzzy, I agree that Buddhism is a religion. Just here in the West it has somewhat also taken on the precepts of a non religious philosophy. Certainly if we look at its roots it appears to not worship God, or perhaps not the same Christian Abrahamic God which we typically associate with religions here in the West. And so perhaps that is where the root of this misunderstanding lies?

[Burninglight]

From stock knowledge I see that converts to Buddhists from among Westerners like Europeans and Americans keep saying that Buddhism is atheistic.

They might has well be athiest. They believe in Budah as their idol who was and is no God !