Is the foreskin God's mistake?

[Jax Agnesson]

If it wasn't a mistake, why is it important to snip it off?

[Goat]

Can you show me where in the Bible God ordered circumcision?

Also, I found these two references to circumcision in the Bible which show they might not have been talking about physical circumcision, and also that they said it didn't matter whether you were circumcised or not.

Colossians 2:11
KJV - In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ
NIV - In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ,

1 Corinthians 7:19
KJV - Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
NIV - Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

Can you show me in the Bible where circumcision is ordered directly by God? I'm not implying that it's not there, just saying I couldn't find it.

Also I submit that it is genital mutilation of children. Finally people are gonna masturbate anyway whether they're circumcised or not.

Well, it's in genesis 17:9.. It's a 'God's command'..

[Shabi]

Got it, thanks. So how do you interpret the passage at Corinthians 7:19?

[Suluby]

Can you show me where in the Bible God ordered circumcision?

Also, I found these two references to circumcision in the Bible which show they might not have been talking about physical circumcision, and also that they said it didn't matter whether you were circumcised or not.

Colossians 2:11
KJV - In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ
NIV - In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ,

1 Corinthians 7:19
KJV - Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
NIV - Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

Can you show me in the Bible where circumcision is ordered directly by God? I'm not implying that it's not there, just saying I couldn't find it.

Also I submit that it is genital mutilation of children. Finally people are gonna masturbate anyway whether they're circumcised or not.

Genesis 17:9-14 - King James Version (KJV)
9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

It is quite clear that the command concerns physical circumcision - the removal of the foreskin - and the time of the ritual is very specific. It is an important part of the eternal and everlasting covenant established by G-d with the Jewish people.

You can submit that it is mutilation ..... but Jews prefer to follow the command of G-d.

The command to circumcise our sons at 8 days of age has absolutely nothing to do with masturbation.


Whether there are or are not health benefits to be derived from a brit milah (ritual circumcision) is not an issue for Jews. It is a command from G-d. The scripture you cited - Colossians and 1 Corinthians - are not considered holy scripture by Judaism, so the POV that they represent do not matter to the parents who will ritually circumcise their sons.

Asking Jews to consider what Christian scripture has to say about ritual circumcision is akin to a Christian consulting the Qu'ran or the Vedas or the Havamal when considering baptism. Would you do that?

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[Goat]

Got it, thanks. So how do you interpret the passage at Corinthians 7:19?

I see it as a marketing ploy to market 'Judaism lite' to the gentiles.. basically removing the things that might make people hesitant about converting.. such as circumcision.. the dietary laws were also removed.

I happen to think that the Ebbonites claims about Paul make a lot of sense in context with his letters... and that he was a pagan who converted to Judaism because he wanted to court the high priest's daughter, but was rejected by her.

[Burninglight]

If it wasn't a mistake, why is it important to snip it off?

Just like God said don't eat pork and certain other foods like shell fish and so on because they aren't the cleanest foods, God said it so no longer necessary and circumcision was a covenant agreement no longer a mandate from God, but it is a cleaner way to be. It is an option now!

[Nickman]

There has been debate on whether circumcision causes desensitization, but as far as I have researched there is no conclusive answer. If it were so I would feel a little cheated on the extra pleasure, but at the same time libido would decrease and my woman would be cheated.

As far as a mistake, it seems to be reasonable that god would have made us Optimal as Genesis Chapter one says repeatedly after each creation; And God saw that it was good. Optimal to me would be circumcision since it comes with less maintenance and more sex appeal to the opposite sex. So it begs the question why did god make us uncircumcised if circumcision in his eyes was better to begin with? I think it is because circumcision is man made and the term god was used as the enforcement to get a certain tribe of people to do it and be different from everyone else. Like branding

[bluethread]

Got it, thanks. So how do you interpret the passage at Corinthians 7:19?

The specific context in 1Cor. 7 is salvation. If one does not accept the Promise of Adonai or does not respect the Covenant, circumcision is just a medical procedure at best. It signifies nothing. However, if one puts ones faith in the Promise and chooses to live by Adonai's ways, circumcision has significance as a memorial.

Regarding the OP directly, one could ask someone with a tattoo if they think Adonai made a mistake by not covering our skin with pictures. Since, I have a ruddy complexion, it is possible He did in my case, if one knew how to connect the dots.

[Suluby]

If it wasn't a mistake, why is it important to snip it off?

Just like God said don't eat pork and certain other foods like shell fish and so on because they aren't the cleanest foods, God said it so no longer necessary and circumcision was a covenant agreement no longer a mandate from God, but it is a cleaner way to be. It is an option now!

Can you cite anywhere in the Tanakh where I can find that reason for what is kosher and what is not kosher to eat?

G-d may have told you that all parts of the covenant made with the Jewish people are no longer an eternal and everlasting covenant with the Jewish people and that you can pick and choose which parts you like ..... but G-d did not say that to the Jewish people.

No insult intended ..... but I will stick with what G-d told me.


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[bluethread]

G-d may have told you that all parts of the covenant made with the Jewish people are no longer an eternal and everlasting covenant with the Jewish people and that you can pick and choose which parts you like ..... but G-d did not say that to the Jewish people.

No insult intended ..... but I will stick with what G-d told me.


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Just a point of clarification, the term Jewish has more than one definition. Therefore, are you refering to only decendents of Y'hudah, all who identify themselves as hereditary descendents of Israel, hereditary decendents plus all rabbinic converts, or all those who Identify themselves with Avraham?

[Suluby]

G-d may have told you that all parts of the covenant made with the Jewish people are no longer an eternal and everlasting covenant with the Jewish people and that you can pick and choose which parts you like ..... but G-d did not say that to the Jewish people.

No insult intended ..... but I will stick with what G-d told me.
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Just a point of clarification, the term Jewish has more than one definition. Therefore, are you refering to only decendents of Y'hudah, all who identify themselves as hereditary descendents of Israel, hereditary decendents plus all rabbinic converts, or all those who Identify themselves with Avraham?

I am including all who are either Jews by chance or Jews by choice ..... having converted in an halachically proper manner.

Anyone can call themselves Jewish, but that does not mean they are. As many Christians have told me, "Lots of people call themselves Christians ..... but when the rubber meets the road, they aren't."

One can identify with Abraham, and one can sprinkle Hebrew terminology into the conversation whenever the opportunity permits ..... but that does not make them Jewish.

If Christians can decide who is and who is not a Christian, then Jews can decide who is and who is not a Jew. If living like a Jew is important ..... but not important enough to convince one to actually convert to Judaism, then one can adopt the title of Noachide.

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