Is Allah in the Quran the same God of the Bible?

[Burninglight]

Allah means God in Arabic or the god as some contend. Muslims say yes he is the same god and some Christians say yes he is as well, but many Christians say "no He is not." The God in the Bible has a son, but Allah says he doesn't. Muslims say Christians associate partners unto God, but Christians say that is not true and that they are monotheistic or that God is one.

Muslims do not believe when Christians say they are not polytheistic. Christians say Muhammad isn't a confirmed Biblical prophet, but Muslims say he is. Muslims say the Bible has been corrupted, but Christians say the Quran is corrupted.

The Bible says Ishmael is no prophet. Muslims say he is. Jesus said he is "The Way, the Truth, and the Life." Muslims say he was that for his time and for the Jews he came only. Christians say that Jesus is the truth for all time and all people and that Jesus never said I show the truth or the way.

The Quran says that Jesus is not the word of God made flesh, but the Bible says he is. Muslims don't have eternal security, but Christians say we can know now from the Bible if we will be saved and know now if we have eternal life because God assures us. Christians believe that Jesus is Deity, but Muslim so no he is just a prophet or messenger.

Any of these topics on this thread are welcome and open for discussion and or debate!

[Burninglight]

Modern Muslims say the Bible is corrupted but Muhammad never said that. Do you believe man's power to corrupt is greater than God's power to preserve?

Al-Baqara 2:75-->Can ye (o ye men of Faith) entertain the hope that they will believe in you?- Seeing that a party of them heard the Word of Allah, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it.
Jeremiah 8:8 told long before Muhammad(pbuh); (already discussed previously)

If Allah couldn't keep His word from corruption before Muhammad, what makes you thing he could after?

I believe that God did not gave human the capacity of chosing from good and evil for him to prevent them from corrupting themselves ;
Book of revelation 22:18-19-->For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
He would not have warned anyone if he was protecting the Book;
But he has established rules (Al-Hijr 15:9-->We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it);
I believe that God has not protected the books he sent before because he planned to send the last revelation and protect it so as all people comming onward till the end will receive the original message;

Bibles have translational errors, and so does the Quran when translate to another language like the Bible.

Yes, I completely agree; try to compare original(hebrew and greek) texts;
For the bible you have different codex and contradictions; even for the Gospel you have not less than 120 versions found yet which one is the true gospel?;

I am just a Christian who loves God and believes deeply in one God, but I have nothing to do with Islam, because the Scriptures that came before Muhammad we are told by God are established forever in heaven.

The laws established remains the same, but what about the writings of the laws? Jeremiah 8:8, though the writings have been change in the book they still remains to the face of God;

The Quran was supposed to confirm or support them, but something went wrong.

Yet it confirms them:
Surah 2:43-->And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

It may have been when Uthman burned the original QURANS. Somehow there is alot of corruption when he recompiled them that led all followers of Islam astray, but from what I understand, the QURAN WAS even worse before he tampered with them.

Looking at what you've understood I can conclude that you have misunderstood;
In arabic language as in hebrew you have vowels (see YHWH for YaHWeH) and when the is no vowel there are lots of posibilities about the pronounciation (lead to JeoHVaH);This problem arise only with people who's mother tongue is not Hebrew, then they added vowel to it to prevent this mis pronounciations; When Uthman saw muslim reciting the Qu'ran but with wrong pronounciation he requested to add the vowels to it (as done to the (Hebrew)Bible); He request many copies(recopying not writing from themselves) with pronounciations that could be read by most of the people out of these copies he had selected one, and so as to prevent confusion he burned the rest;
Hope I've cleared this misunderstanding;

There are the satanic verses, Muhammad's message was there is only one God, but to the embarrassment of Muslims those verses were taken out. The verse of the "flying cranes whose intercession was hoped for." What Muhammad did would be like Abraham, Moses, David or Jesus saying, "There is only one God, but you can hope for the intercession of these goddesses! I could never imagine them doing this. They would never make such a mistake.

I you were to compile a book and found error in it would you compile the errors or remove them?
And this verses goes against all the teachings of Islam (see Al-Ikhlas 112);
The devil misguide good people in good things and bad people in bad things, he will surely not tell a muslim praying 5 times a day to go to a night club;
Contradiction: 1 Chronical 21:1-2-->And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.
Indeed David did not say anything but he acted;

Muslims are in denial or wilfully ignorant that this happened; therefore the greatest threat to Islam is knowledge and truth; it's greatest strength is in ignorance and deception. Allah claims to the the "best of deceivers" and the Bible says Satan is "the father of lies" So my little brain puts 2+2=4!

And yet your brain keeps on repeating the same thing which we have already discussed;

So Muhammad to me was either a false prophet or no prophet at all. According to the Torah he isn't and Muhammad followed the Torah. There has been no change to the Torah or the gospels since his time and Allah said we sent them to you.

The problem doesnot arise in the time of muhammad(pbuh) it happend long ago in the time of Jeremiah(Jeremiah 8:8);

Gen 21:12 Says Ishmael is no prophet. Since Muhammad claim ancestry from Ishmael then go figure. So you se there are many reason I don't identify with Islam, but I wish for you the path of righteousness and truth.

Genesis 21:12 doesnot tell that Ishmael wasnot a prophet, Moreover from the bible most of the prophets have always been discredited, they always rebel against the prophets, several times trying to kill Jesus, it would not be so strange that they have removed any piece from it;

God said Jesus is His beloved son and Islam flies in the face of God saying it is not true. "This is my Beloved son in whom I am well pleased, hear ye Him" I don't think it is wise for you to wait until judgment day, but suit yourself.

Once again you have misunderstood- Muslim says that Jesus is not the only begotten soon of God, do not ommit the words in bold this will change the meaning of the phrase; But I believe as witten in the bible that everyone who serves God and Love him is to be called a child of God; I have said before the word begotten is a fabrication;This is not denying that Jesus is the servant of God(son if you want);

the love of God the one and only true God who has no partners!

If you tell me that God is Love I tell you "yes"; but if you tell me that God is like Shylock who needs blood shedding to forgive the sin's of mankind I tell you "no way!"

For the video:
These guys seems not to know islam at all neither know the bible (1 Chronical 21:1-2-->And Satan stood up against Israel...),
They say that this idea of Godesses "came out of nowhere" proves that he was not in his normal state,
for someone to teach something for years and then destroy everything, moreover seeing these people accepting what he said why would he correct it? it's completely illogical;
As the guy mentioned when the devil temps you he does it by "whispering", into your node which is called waswasa;
The surat An-Nas 114, teaches to us how to ask for protection agains the whispering of Satan;

Peace;

Did you know that 14 million people follow Joseph Smith who was given golden plates with the final testament to fix all the religions of the world and the corruptions in them? Many believe him to be the last prophet.. They too are told to pray, fast and help the poor and make loans without usury. They believe Jesus was Satan's brother and God was Adam. But Joseph Smith was visited by angels or heavenly beings that spoke with him. Now, I don't believe they have the truth, and I know you don't either. I am not Catholic; they pray to Mary and deal with statues; I don't. So lets get that straight. Just like Muslims have differences so do Christians.

You said the Bible was corrupted. You bring up Jeremiah 8 and the lying pens. If the Scribes were lying about the Bible why would they put that verse in there to expose themselves??? It wasn't talking about the Bible being corrupted; it was other documents that the Scribes use to deceive the people like the Catholic church has done for years by adding IN WRITING conditions to go along with God's word along with misinterpretations.
God promised before Muhammad was born that His word is established forever in heaven. He was speaking of the Scriptures that came before the Quran. So how can you say it was corrupted before the Quran? Muhammad used those Scriptures. Show me where he said they were corrupted. The same he used we still have today.

The Muslims repeatedly claim that the Bible has been corrupted and that the Qu'ran is the only trustworthy scripture in existence. This is why Muslims often attack the Bible. But this cannot be according to the Quran. The Quran says that the books of Moses, the Psalms, and the gospel were all given by God.

•Torah - "We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers," (Sura 2:87).1
•Psalms - "We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms," (4:163).
•Gospel - "It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)," (3:3).
Also, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," (5:46).
We see that the Qu'ran states that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel were all given by God. With this we Christians heartily agree. But, the Muslims claim that the Bible is corrupted and full of contradictions. If that is so, then it would seem they do not believe the Qu'ran since the Qu'ran says that the Word of God cannot be altered:

•"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
•"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all," (6:115).
•"For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity," (10:64).
When Muhammed (570 - 632) was alive, he claimed to receive the revelation of the Qu'ran from Allah. This means that at that time the Bible, which was in existence, could not have been corrupted because the Qu'ran states that God's word cannot be corrupted. The question I have for you my sister is "When and where was the Bible corrupted, since the Qu'ran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah's words cannot be changed?" If you cannot tell me when, then you have been pawned & exposed for spouting out what you have heard other Muslims say with support. Muhammad followed the Torah; he never said it was corrupted. Modern Muslims say it is, because if it is not corrupted they have to believe it and it shows that Muhammad is no prophet. Muslims can't deal with that, but they should!

[Asher]

Did you know that 14 million people follow Joseph Smith who was given golden plates with the final testament to fix all the religions of the world and the corruptions in them? Many believe him to be the last prophet.. They too are told to pray, fast and help the poor and make loans without usury. They believe Jesus was Satan's brother and God was Adam.

This goes completely against the teachings of the bible, more over the Mormons are multi-theistic;
If you are telling me that he produced a book like the Qu'ran your completely wrong, the Qu'ran does not go against the original teachings of the prophets;

But Joseph Smith was visited by angels or heavenly beings that spoke with him.

Just like Paul(Saul) and Muhammad(pbuh) but only one can be true as each of them teaches a different story;
Joseph Smith's teachings was polytheism, against the OT;
Paul taught monotheism(as supposed) and Original Sin partly against the OT;
Muhammad taught monotheism and his teachings goes with the OT;

You said the Bible was corrupted. You bring up Jeremiah 8 and the lying pens. If the Scribes were lying about the Bible why would they put that verse in there to expose themselves???

Either Jeremiah was lying or he told the truth and the Scribes wrote lies; Either way there should be someone who was lying;
Jeremiah came about 650 years before Jesus was born and he was talking about the modifications made before his birth;
If you use your logic you will know that the scribes he talked about died long ago before his birth;
{Jesus too criticize the Scribes}
See the bible calling Isaac the only(unique) son of Abraham when we all know that he had 2 sons;
God will not have made such a mistake;

It wasn't talking about the Bible being corrupted; it was other documents that the Scribes use to deceive the people like the Catholic church has done for years by adding IN WRITING conditions to go along with God's word along with misinterpretations.

He was talking about the laws, and we all know that the bible contains books of the laws(Leviticus and Deteuronomy) which were used to judge others; He was not talking about other documents else which documents(other versions of the bible)?;

God promised before Muhammad was born that His word is established forever in heaven. He was speaking of the Scriptures that came before the Quran. So how can you say it was corrupted before the Quran?

It's clearly states in heaven but your on earth now, and if you look at the Bible, it contains Words of Historian, words of God and words of Prophets;
Jesus too said: Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away;(Mark 13:31;Luke 21:33;Matt 24:35)
And yet you find hundred of Gospels contradicting each other;
Truth is that their words have not been change but they are used out of context which gives them other meanings and produced accounts and stories;

Muhammad used those Scriptures.

Maybe you've forgot that Muhammad(pbuh) was unlettered(He doesnot know how to read neither write) how could a man not even knowing to write his own name in his mother tongue(Arabic) to use scripture of foreign languages(Hebrew/Aramiac/Greek);

Show me where he said they were corrupted. The same he used we still have today.

Al-Baqara 2:79-->Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

The Muslims repeatedly claim that the Bible has been corrupted and that the Qu'ran is the only trustworthy scripture in existence. This is why Muslims often attack the Bible. But this cannot be according to the Quran. The Quran says that the books of Moses, the Psalms, and the gospel were all given by God.
...

The Jewish scolars have said that they do not even have a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the original text of the Bible; which mean that in the time of the prophet Muhammad(pbuh) they had the same problem "The same he used we still have today"

We see that the Qu'ran states that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel were all given by God. With this we Christians heartily agree. But, the Muslims claim that the Bible is corrupted and full of contradictions. If that is so, then it would seem they do not believe the Qu'ran since the Qu'ran says that the Word of God cannot be altered:
...

Yes the word of God cannot be altered, but the word and teaching of man can:
The Qu'ran presents the books as to be written by men who claimed that it came from God:
The Torah was given to Moses not to an Historian and what the historian wrote is not the Word of God;
The Psalms was given to David and yet in the psalms you will find David talking about what God told him (not God's Word but Part of them);
The Gospel given to Jesus, not to his apostles, but he taught them the Gospel and what they have written is not the Word of God;
The Books available nowadays known as the Torah, Psalms and Gospel are the work and fruit of man;
Taking a Cat and calling it Dog doesnot make the Cat to become a Dog;

When Muhammed (570 - 632) was alive, he claimed to receive the revelation of the Qu'ran from Allah. This means that at that time the Bible, which was in existence, could not have been corrupted because the Qu'ran states that God's word cannot be corrupted. The question I have for you my sister is "When and where was the Bible corrupted, since the Qu'ran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah's words cannot be changed?" If you cannot tell me when, then you have been pawned & exposed for spouting out what you have heard other Muslims say with support.

First of all I'm a brother;
If the Torah that was used in the time of the prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was the direct words of God, not summary neither accounts told by the historians the Torah would not have "Moses said unto God" and "God said unto Moses" nearly 700 times;
It would only contains laws and things which God says;
And worst of all the Gospels are stories told by the apostle of Jesus(pbuh) but the Gospel sent on Jesus was taught to the apostle instead the scribes have just copied parts of his teaching and presented it as the Gospel;
The Qu'ran was talking about true Torah, Psalms and Gospel not of the summaries and accounts made by the historians and scribes by Quoting God as Paul did in his letter("it is written");
Unable to change God's word they have written accounts and histories about the prophets then Quoting God out of context just like christians do to the Qu'ran;
Micah 3:9-->Hear this, I pray you, ye heads of the house of Jacob, and princes of the house of Israel, that abhor judgment, and pervert all equity.;

Muhammad followed the Torah; he never said it was corrupted. Modern Muslims say it is, because if it is not corrupted they have to believe it and it shows that Muhammad is no prophet. Muslims can't deal with that, but they should!

Show me that Muhammad is not a prophet from the bible then;
And how can you be sure that the gave the christians the real Torah?

PbuY;

[Burninglight]

First of all, there is no documented evidence that Muhammad or anyone else considered Muhammad a prophet at the time he was living; in fact, the Quran tells Muhammad to search the Scripture and ask the people of the book whether he's a prophet Quran 10:94.

Muslims say that Muhammad is a descendant of Ishmael. I have heard scholars say this is not true, but for arguments sake, lets say he is. The Torah states that no prophets come out of Ishmael and that Ishmael and his mother slave were sent away and God told Abraham not to worry about them and that he would bless Ishmael, but he said to Abraham you seed will be called in Isaac (not Ishmael). Muhammad is definitely not a descendant of Isaac. Gen 21:12 Ishmael was no prophet; so, if Muhammad is his descendant then neither is he.

Now, tell me where and when was the torah got corrupted. God's word is established forever in heaven. You said that is heaven not earth. That was an obtuse statment. What good would that do men if God establishes only in heaven?. Jesus taught us how to pray. That God's will be done on earth has it is in heaven.

Muhammad use the same torah you condemn as corrupted. You see there are way too many flaws and holes in Islam to justify joining with Islam. I could never do it in good consicous, and I don't know how you could. Who could possible benefit from completely corrupting the Bible. How can they get away with it and what did they have to can?

Muslim are making too many inferences to fill in gaps of unverified information, I could never feel comfortable with that. Muslims simple say its the truth and every who says no its not is a liar, because they are not willing to look and question Muhammad

[Asher]

First of all, there is no documented evidence that Muhammad or anyone else considered Muhammad a prophet at the time he was living;

Maybe you've forgot about the Hadiths when the believers were calling Muhammad(pbuh): "Ya RasoulAllah" - "Oh messenger of Allah"

the Quran tells Muhammad to search the Scripture and ask the people of the book whether he's a prophet Quran 10:94.

Yunus 10:94--> If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.
This ayat(verse) was telling to everyone to go to the people of the Book not necesarily to go to the book;
And it was not to verify whether he was a prophet, it was to clear their doubts about the Qu'ran;

Muslims say that Muhammad is a descendant of Ishmael. I have heard scholars say this is not true, but for arguments sake, lets say he is.

They say it's not true but they cannot prove it;

The Torah states that no prophets come out of Ishmael and that Ishmael and his mother slave were sent away and God told Abraham not to worry about them and that he would bless Ishmael, but he said to Abraham you seed will be called in Isaac (not Ishmael). Muhammad is definitely not a descendant of Isaac. Gen 21:12 Ishmael was no prophet; so, if Muhammad is his descendant then neither is he.

And his seed were called from Isaac and they had always rebelled against God;
Deuteronomy 32:21-->They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
And god said he would replace them;

Now, tell me where and when was the torah got corrupted. God's word is established forever in heaven. You said that is heaven not earth. That was an obtuse statment. What good would that do men if God establishes only in heaven?. Jesus taught us how to pray. That God's will be done on earth has it is in heaven.

Brother if any man on earth knew when and where or which part of the Torah got corrupted he would have recorrected it;
Jesus told you to ask that to God and when he did it you did not believe in it (Qu'ran Final Establish Revelation);

Muhammad use the same torah you condemn as corrupted. You see there are way too many flaws and holes in Islam to justify joining with Islam.

Once again You've forgot that Muhammad(pbuh) was unlettered(He doesnot know how to read neither write) how could a man not even knowing to write his own name in his mother tongue(Arabic) to use scripture of foreign languages(Hebrew/Aramiac/Greek);;
For the holes there are more holes is Christianity than in Islam;

I could never do it in good consicous, and I don't know how you could.

I said that too, but as you say truth prevails, and it is prevailing on the earth:
Many Christians are reverting from Christianity to Islam and most of them says that they revert to Islam because Christianity is Illogical, And that is my Reason;
Research has proved that in 2025 Muslims will be 30% on earth and Christians will be 25%;
And if you want to go on and losing your time trying to prove Illogical thing and lying its up to you;

Who could possible benefit from completely corrupting the Bible. How can they get away with it and what did they have to can?

The Christ(anointed one) was supposed to take the throne of David and to take control of Judah, thus putting and end to the reins of the teachers of the laws, and that's why they wanted to crucify Jesus(pbuh). Once again they rebel against God; (See Matthew 23 how Jesus(pbuh) criticize them)

Muslim are making too many inferences to fill in gaps of unverified information, I could never feel comfortable with that. Muslims simple say its the truth and every who says no its not is a liar, because they are not willing to look and question Muhammad

If you know that 2+2=4 and someone tells you than 2+2+2=5 you should use inference to prove him wrong;
To prove him you should use your logic; But if you believe without verification that means your blind;

[Burninglight]

First of all, there is no documented evidence that Muhammad or anyone else considered Muhammad a prophet at the time he was living;

Maybe you've forgot about the Hadiths when the believers were calling Muhammad(pbuh): "Ya RasoulAllah" - "Oh messenger of Allah"

the Quran tells Muhammad to search the Scripture and ask the people of the book whether he's a prophet Quran 10:94.

Yunus 10:94--> If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.
This ayat(verse) was telling to everyone to go to the people of the Book not necesarily to go to the book;
And it was not to verify whether he was a prophet, it was to clear their doubts about the Qu'ran;

Muslims say that Muhammad is a descendant of Ishmael. I have heard scholars say this is not true, but for arguments sake, lets say he is.

They say it's not true but they cannot prove it;

The Torah states that no prophets come out of Ishmael and that Ishmael and his mother slave were sent away and God told Abraham not to worry about them and that he would bless Ishmael, but he said to Abraham you seed will be called in Isaac (not Ishmael). Muhammad is definitely not a descendant of Isaac. Gen 21:12 Ishmael was no prophet; so, if Muhammad is his descendant then neither is he.

And his seed were called from Isaac and they had always rebelled against God;
Deuteronomy 32:21-->They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
And god said he would replace them;

Now, tell me where and when was the torah got corrupted. God's word is established forever in heaven. You said that is heaven not earth. That was an obtuse statment. What good would that do men if God establishes only in heaven?. Jesus taught us how to pray. That God's will be done on earth has it is in heaven.

Brother if any man on earth knew when and where or which part of the Torah got corrupted he would have recorrected it;
Jesus told you to ask that to God and when he did it you did not believe in it (Qu'ran Final Establish Revelation);

Muhammad use the same torah you condemn as corrupted. You see there are way too many flaws and holes in Islam to justify joining with Islam.

Once again You've forgot that Muhammad(pbuh) was unlettered(He doesnot know how to read neither write) how could a man not even knowing to write his own name in his mother tongue(Arabic) to use scripture of foreign languages(Hebrew/Aramiac/Greek);;
For the holes there are more holes is Christianity than in Islam;

I could never do it in good consicous, and I don't know how you could.

I said that too, but as you say truth prevails, and it is prevailing on the earth:
Many Christians are reverting from Christianity to Islam and most of them says that they revert to Islam because Christianity is Illogical, And that is my Reason;
Research has proved that in 2025 Muslims will be 30% on earth and Christians will be 25%;
And if you want to go on and losing your time trying to prove Illogical thing and lying its up to you;

Who could possible benefit from completely corrupting the Bible. How can they get away with it and what did they have to gain?

The Christ(anointed one) was supposed to take the throne of David and to take control of Judah, thus putting and end to the reins of the teachers of the laws, and that's why they wanted to crucify Jesus(pbuh). Once again they rebel against God; (See Matthew 23 how Jesus(pbuh) criticize them)

Muslim are making too many inferences to fill in gaps of unverified information, I could never feel comfortable with that. Muslims simple say its the truth and every who says no its not is a liar, because they are not willing to look and question Muhammad

If you know that 2+2=4 and someone tells you than 2+2+2=5 you should use inference to prove him wrong;
To prove him you should use your logic; But if you believe without verification that means your blind;

So I am calling you on it 2+2+2=6 not 5 like you say. The hadiths do not predate Muhammad's death. Read what I said carefully. What you shared is not proving anything contrary to my statements!

Muhammad was unlettered, I wouldn't boast about that! That just makes it less likely to believe him; for instance, he couldn't tell if someone was writing the opposite of what he was saying. Besides, he knew people that could read to tell him what the Torah said, in fact, that is what he did to justify the stoning of a woman caught in adultery. You are a Muslim and you don't know any of this stuff. Maybe you should let me dialogue with your teacher!

Instead of telling there are more holes in the Bible give me an example. The god of Islam shows ignorance about the trinity concept. He didn't know, for instance, that the Holy Spirit was the third person of the trinity. He thought Mary was part of the trinity. Allah showed ignorance, I challenge you to show me where in the Bible God showed ignorance!

You mentioned "Deuteronomy 32:21-->They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.And god said he would replace them"

Ishmael 's descendants can be considered a part of Abraham; so, that verse was referring to the gentiles who were no people and a foolish nation without God (the gentiles became Christians) not the Muslims that came after the Christians. For it is written: "the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us that are saved, it is the power of God" That verse is talking of us Christians.

We know we are saved by God's grace through our faith in Him that gave Himself for us. Muslims are the ones who don't know about their eternal destiny. They are in the dark and ignorance about those things. But it is no wonder when you consider their god is ignorant about what true Christians believe!

Finally, you said, "Brother if any man on earth knew when and where or which part of the Torah got corrupted he would have recorrected it.... (Qu'ran Final Establish Revelation)" You are saying a bunch of trash. "If" is a big word. "If you knew." The point is you don't know and you speak. That is were logic fails you!

There is no Peace without the Prince of Peace!

[Asher]

So I am calling you on it 2+2+2=6 not 5 like you say.

It was an analogy read carefully;

The hadiths do not predate Muhammad's death. Read what I said carefully. What you shared is not proving anything contrary to my statements!

Yes the hadith doesnot predate him, but the saying of the people;
It has been reported by Huzaifah in Ahmad, Tirmizi and Ibn Jarir that the Messenger Muhammad (saw) was reciting this verse and Udayy (ra) said to Him (saw): 'Oh Rasoul Allah, they do not worship the Rabbis and the Monks' To which He (saw) replied: 'The Rabbis and Monks make that which is lawful unlawful and that which is unlawful lawful the people, follow them, and by doing so they worship them'
They called him RASOUL ALLAH, which means Messenger of Allah;

Muhammad was unlettered, I wouldn't boast about that! That just makes it less likely to believe him; for instance, he couldn't tell if someone was writing the opposite of what he was saying.

The difference between the scribes of the Bible and the one of the Qu'ran is that those of the Bible were reproducing the Bible by writing, but those of the Qu'ran were both writing and all the people(followers) had it in memory;
Idependently of the writing they were reciting it;

Besides, he knew people that could read to tell him what the Torah said, in fact, that is what he did to justify the stoning of a woman caught in adultery. You are a Muslim and you don't know any of this stuff. Maybe you should let me dialogue with your teacher!

So if you are a better teacher than my teacher, then you should explain all the scientific facts found in the Qu'ran and not found in the Torah; You are saying that he copied from the Jews and the Christians where indeed in the Bible itself there is Plagiarism; Thing is that the laws of Islam is the same as the original laws of Moses and in the Islamic law you will find that it should be done;

Instead of telling there are more holes in the Bible give me an example. The god of Islam shows ignorance about the trinity concept. He didn't know, for instance, that the Holy Spirit was the third person of the trinity. He thought Mary was part of the trinity. Allah showed ignorance, I challenge you to show me where in the Bible God showed ignorance!

Qur'an 5:116-->And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

The Qu'ran was not refering to the trinity you simply read what is not there;
Don't read out of context that is the key to understand the book;

Luke 3:23-->And Jesus himself, when he began to teach , was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the'son of Heli;
about thirty years of age-->the Holy Spirit did not know the age of Jesus;

The only one who can be considered as ignorant are the apostles who wrote the Gospels;
--Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations.
Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.
--Matthew 8:13 & 8:14 Jesus healed the leper before visiting the house.
Mark 1:29-30 & 1:40-42 Jesus healed the leper after visiting Simon Peter’s house.
--Matthew 8:5-7 The Centurion approached Jesus, beseeching help for a sick servant.
Luke 7:3 & 7:6-7 The Centurion did not approach Jesus. He sent friends and elders of the Jews.
There are much more contradictions than that and you claim that these books came from God by inspiration of the Holy Spirit;

Since it's challenge time I challenge you to prove me that the Trinity exist in the OT in context and unambigious;

You mentioned Deuteronomy 32:21; Ishmael's descendants can be considered a part of Abraham; so, that verse was referring to the gentiles who were no people and a foolish nation without God (the gentiles became Christians) not the Muslims that came after the Christians. For it is written: "the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us that are saved, it is the power of God" That verse is talking of us Christians.

Who wrote that God of Man?

Gentiles-->"I think it is high time that we learned something about one of the most mis-used words"
{Everywhere you find the word “Gentile� used in the Old Testament, it is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word “GOY,� which means “NATION.� The plural form of it is “GOYIM.�}
http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/whogentiles.html
Your conclusion has no meaning at all;

We know we are saved by God's grace through our faith in Him that gave Himself for us. Muslims are the ones who don't know about their eternal destiny. They are in the dark and ignorance about those things. But it is no wonder when you consider their god is ignorant about what true Christians believe!

We are ignorant about whether we will go to heaven or hell because it is up to God to chose not for us;
Contrary to the Christians who are completely sure to go to heaven only by faith of sacrifice and blood shedding of Jesus Crist which contradicts the teachings of your the Crist;
Matthew 19:17-->And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments; No Blood Sacrifice is mentioned;
Roman 3:25-->Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;; But he cursed Adam and Eve with all mandkind for their sin;
And you talk about logic;

Finally, you said, "Brother if any man on earth knew when and where or which part of the Torah got corrupted he would have recorrected it.... (Qu'ran Final Establish Revelation)" You are saying a bunch of trash. "If" is a big word. "If you knew." The point is you don't know and you speak. That is were logic fails you!

Yes I don't know where the bible has been modified, that's why I did not tell you!!!
When you read make sure you understand what you have read or find yourself a teacher it will be better for you;

There is no Peace without the Prince of Peace!

But how can there be Peace if you kill the Prince of Peace!

If I had offend you, I sincerely present my apologies;
Peace be upon you;

[Burninglight]

So I am calling you on it 2+2+2=6 not 5 like you say.

It was an analogy read carefully;

The hadiths do not predate Muhammad's death. Read what I said carefully. What you shared is not proving anything contrary to my statements!

Yes the hadith doesnot predate him, but the saying of the people;
It has been reported by Huzaifah in Ahmad, Tirmizi and Ibn Jarir that the Messenger Muhammad (saw) was reciting this verse and Udayy (ra) said to Him (saw): 'Oh Rasoul Allah, they do not worship the Rabbis and the Monks' To which He (saw) replied: 'The Rabbis and Monks make that which is lawful unlawful and that which is unlawful lawful the people, follow them, and by doing so they worship them'
They called him RASOUL ALLAH, which means Messenger of Allah;

Muhammad was unlettered, I wouldn't boast about that! That just makes it less likely to believe him; for instance, he couldn't tell if someone was writing the opposite of what he was saying.

The difference between the scribes of the Bible and the one of the Qu'ran is that those of the Bible were reproducing the Bible by writing, but those of the Qu'ran were both writing and all the people(followers) had it in memory;
Idependently of the writing they were reciting it;

Besides, he knew people that could read to tell him what the Torah said, in fact, that is what he did to justify the stoning of a woman caught in adultery. You are a Muslim and you don't know any of this stuff. Maybe you should let me dialogue with your teacher!

So if you are a better teacher than my teacher, then you should explain all the scientific facts found in the Qu'ran and not found in the Torah; You are saying that he copied from the Jews and the Christians where indeed in the Bible itself there is Plagiarism; Thing is that the laws of Islam is the same as the original laws of Moses and in the Islamic law you will find that it should be done;

Instead of telling there are more holes in the Bible give me an example. The god of Islam shows ignorance about the trinity concept. He didn't know, for instance, that the Holy Spirit was the third person of the trinity. He thought Mary was part of the trinity. Allah showed ignorance, I challenge you to show me where in the Bible God showed ignorance!

Qur'an 5:116-->And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

The Qu'ran was not refering to the trinity you simply read what is not there;
Don't read out of context that is the key to understand the book;

Luke 3:23-->And Jesus himself, when he began to teach , was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the'son of Heli;
about thirty years of age-->the Holy Spirit did not know the age of Jesus;

The only one who can be considered as ignorant are the apostles who wrote the Gospels;
--Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations.
Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.
--Matthew 8:13 & 8:14 Jesus healed the leper before visiting the house.
Mark 1:29-30 & 1:40-42 Jesus healed the leper after visiting Simon Peter’s house.
--Matthew 8:5-7 The Centurion approached Jesus, beseeching help for a sick servant.
Luke 7:3 & 7:6-7 The Centurion did not approach Jesus. He sent friends and elders of the Jews.
There are much more contradictions than that and you claim that these books came from God by inspiration of the Holy Spirit;

Since it's challenge time I challenge you to prove me that the Trinity exist in the OT in context and unambigious;

You mentioned Deuteronomy 32:21; Ishmael's descendants can be considered a part of Abraham; so, that verse was referring to the gentiles who were no people and a foolish nation without God (the gentiles became Christians) not the Muslims that came after the Christians. For it is written: "the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us that are saved, it is the power of God" That verse is talking of us Christians.

Who wrote that God of Man?

Gentiles-->"I think it is high time that we learned something about one of the most mis-used words"
{Everywhere you find the word “Gentile� used in the Old Testament, it is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word “GOY,� which means “NATION.� The plural form of it is “GOYIM.�}
http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/whogentiles.html
Your conclusion has no meaning at all;

We know we are saved by God's grace through our faith in Him that gave Himself for us. Muslims are the ones who don't know about their eternal destiny. They are in the dark and ignorance about those things. But it is no wonder when you consider their god is ignorant about what true Christians believe!

We are ignorant about whether we will go to heaven or hell because it is up to God to chose not for us;
Contrary to the Christians who are completely sure to go to heaven only by faith of sacrifice and blood shedding of Jesus Crist which contradicts the teachings of your the Crist;
Matthew 19:17-->And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments; No Blood Sacrifice is mentioned;
Roman 3:25-->Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;; But he cursed Adam and Eve with all mandkind for their sin;
And you talk about logic;

Finally, you said, "Brother if any man on earth knew when and where or which part of the Torah got corrupted he would have recorrected it.... (Qu'ran Final Establish Revelation)" You are saying a bunch of trash. "If" is a big word. "If you knew." The point is you don't know and you speak. That is were logic fails you!

Yes I don't know where the bible has been modified, that's why I did not tell you!!!
When you read make sure you understand what you have read or find yourself a teacher it will be better for you;

There is no Peace without the Prince of Peace!

But how can there be Peace if you kill the Prince of Peace!

If I had offend you, I sincerely present my apologies;
Peace be upon you;

First of all, no offense taken, I hope I am not offending you. Thank you for your patience. I know you didn’t mean to say the 2+2+2=5 mathematically. I was only trying to say that your spiritual reasoning doesn’t add up.

I know how the Quran and Bible were written. The point I was trying to make was that there was no divine mandate that the Koran should be written and that Uthman burned the original Qurans and recompiled them. Uthman was no prophet and he acted as Allah’s editor, and those that memorized the Quran were killed.

The scientific facts in the Quran you speak of were already in print. Muslims claim, that a proof the Koran was from God, is that it contains scientifically accurate information about Embryology before man discovered it for himself. However, all the information in the Koran regarding Embryology is copied from three sources, 1. A Greek doctor named Galen, who lived of 150 AD. 2. A Jewish doctor named Samuel ha-Yehudi who lived 150 AD. 3. the Greek father of medicine Hippocrates who lived 400 BC. In light of the fact that all the information contained in the Koran was already in print by these three doctors, will you retract the argument or show me something new about Embryology, that was not already revealed or that was new.
You claim, that a proof that the Koran was from God is that it contains scientifically accurate information about science which includes Embryology, yet in 86:6-7 the Koran says, "man was created from ejected liquid- Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs". This echoes the scientific error of Hippocrates who believed semen originates, from the brain down the spinal chord, before passing through the kidneys and finally out of the body. (Hippocratic Writings, Penguin Classics, 1983, p. 317) My question is: do you reject modern science and believe the Koran when it says sperm originates from the mid-gut section of a man's body? So much for that.

Lets shift gears here. About his plagiarisms, I only said Muhammad got his idea of monotheism from the Jews and the Christians not that he copied everything from the Bible. I didn’t say Allah was talking about the trinity. I know he wasn't. I said any intelligent person can deduct using inferences that Allah didn’t have an understanding of the trinity by his question to Jesus and his comment about “Say not three!�

Lets look carefully: Qur'an 5:116-->And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? If Allah questions about Jesus about Mary being god along with himself, who would the third person of the trinity be? If Mary & Jesus were gods that makes 2 who is the third, if not Allah? He didn’t know that the Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity.

That is what I mean that things don’t add up with you. I make a good point and you give an explanation that has nothing to do with my point. I am not sure you understand my points. That would be half the battle. I am proving to you that Islam’s Allah is ignorant and so was Muhammad about what true Christians believe of the trinity. Now, don’t bring up that Biblical Christians worship Mary, because they don’t. Catholics do that. The trinity concept is in the Bible and Mary is not consider a god in the Bible nor is she to be prayed to, nor is she the mother of God.

As far as Matthew 1:17 which lists fourteen generations and then elsewhere 13, that is because Matthew gives the genealogy from Joseph’s (Mary husband) side and Luke gives it from Mary’s side. Joseph was a descendant of King David. By the way, if you want to see contradiction plug in You tube “contradictions in the Quran� and have fun. This doesn’t get us anywhere. I am sure you can find explanations. Luke saying Jesus was about 30 is not showing that God is ignorant. The Bible is a book that records history or information. People are giving an account as they see it. We read sometimes between the lines and get hold of what God is saying through the recorded information. Luke speaking is not God speaking such as “Thus says the Lord!� Allah was the one talking when he questioned Jesus not some Muslim apostle or disciple! I don’t have a problem reading or with comprehending. I am bringing up every good points that you don’t really address accurately.

Now, I’ll end with Jesus asking "Why do you call me good?" Every Muslim misunderstands this. Jesus was not saying he wasn’t good! Jesus was speaking to him rhetorically and testing him. He was witnessing to him. Jesus wanted him to understand that only God is good, and by calling Jesus good, he was calling Him God. If the rich young ruler said, “But you are good, because you are the son of the living God� Jesus would have said, “Blessed are you for you could not have know this unless my father in heaven had shown you!� Muslims don’t know Jesus. Their Jesus is different than the one in the Bible. I know Him that is why I am not ignorant like you say you are about salvation. If you are ignorant about it that means you are lost. Only Jesus can find & save you!

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

...

Don't bother arguing with this guy about hadiths, Quran, or Islam in general cause many people including me have already answered his questions but he just posts the same thing everywhere... It looks like it's more for deceiving ignorant Christians or Muslims than actually searching for answers.

[Burninglight]

...

Don't bother arguing with this guy about hadiths, Quran, or Islam in general cause many people including me have already answered his questions but he just posts the same thing everywhere... It looks like it's more for deceiving ignorant Christians or Muslims than actually searching for answers.

Who is this guy?

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

Who is this guy?

you...