Brahman and Nirvana vs Non-existence

[CelPatBruYanks]

I will start off by saying that my understanding of Eastern religions is limited, I am a "westerner" and as such, understanding the logic of eastern thinking is sometimes difficult for me, and my experience and knowledge of Hinduism and Buddhism are limited.

That said, what is the difference between:

Brahman and non-existence?

Nirvana and non-existence?

Both of them, with Nirvana in particular, don't seem to be all that different from non-existence. If the Atman/Consciousness is not self-aware but is essentially a disembodied consciousness floating around, how is that different from your consciousness simply ceasing to exist?

[JohnPaul]

If our creator turns out the be the monster that the ancient Hebrews created then no one is safe, not even those who believe that they have a "plan" to avoid his unreasonable wrath. So if the Hebrews were right, then it will be a nightmare for everyone no matter what they believe or how desperately they tried to avoid the wrath of such an unreasonable God.

At least I'll have the memories of a time when I pretended that God might actually be nice.

Yes, I can understand you seeing the Hebrew God as a terror. It is written that all have sinned and come short of God's glory and the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ. We can be safe from the Hebrew's terrible God who is the only Creator through Christ. Jesus taught forgiveness and love your neighbor as yourself and to love God with all your mind heart and soul. God has made a way to escape his horrible judgments and a way to walk in peace love and happiness. He wouldn't take second place. His name is Jealous and He is real. He judged the Jews for their idols. He won't tolerate anyone's idols. Anything we put in front of Him is an idol

It is amazing how weak and desperate gods become when you stop believing in them!!!

Thanks for your concern about my salvation, Burninglight, but I have my own arrangements. My wife was a Wiccan Witch in her younger days and we were married by a Wiccan priestess in Washington state where witchcraft is a legally recognized religion. The Walpurgisnacht holiday is over for this year, so the witches have returned from their orgies with Satan and we once again have the protection of the full covens, as well as idle demons to do our bidding.

I think it is only fair to warn you... YOU ARE BEING WATCHED!!! Something is standing behind you at this very moment. Don't bother turning to look. If you actually caught a glimpse of it, it would then have to kill you, and that would be very unpleasant. The little demons that come to clean up after such messes are disgusting little things, scurrying around to gobble up scraps of your bloody flesh and carrying the bones home to gnaw on them.

Do you remember that loud thump which woke you from a sound sleep a few nights ago? It is only watching you now, but demons are often difficult to restrain, especially when they are hungry. I would advise you not to go out into the hallway to check on it, at least not before daylight.

And that creaking sound you sometimes hear in your attic? I promise you, you don't want to know what that is!!! My wife conjured it, but even she hesitates to talk about it.

You are surrounded and can't get away. If you don't believe me, go out in your backyard on the next bright moonlit night and look around you. See those moving shadows? And those glowing eyes? Is that really only a stray cat? When you hear that soft grunting sound approaching you, I advise you to go back inside.

Good luck. Why don't you say a few extra prayers tonight? Contrary to popular belief, demons aren't really bothered by such superstitions, but the prayers will probably make you feel better.

[Divine Insight]

My wife was a Wiccan Witch in her younger days and we were married by a Wiccan priestess in Washington state where witchcraft is a legally recognized religion.

Oh you lucky dog! I've been lucky enough to have befriended some truly wonderful witches, but I haven't been fortunate enough to find one willing to jump over the besom with me.

[Burninglight]

My wife was a Wiccan Witch in her younger days and we were married by a Wiccan priestess in Washington state where witchcraft is a legally recognized religion.

Oh you lucky dog! I've been lucky enough to have befriended some truly wonderful witches, but I haven't been fortunate enough to find one willing to jump over the besom with me.

Have you ever rode on a besom over your roof top in the rain?

[JohnPaul]

My wife was a Wiccan Witch in her younger days and we were married by a Wiccan priestess in Washington state where witchcraft is a legally recognized religion.

Oh you lucky dog! I've been lucky enough to have befriended some truly wonderful witches, but I haven't been fortunate enough to find one willing to jump over the besom with me.

Thanks. She was a wonderful wife, and by far the best years of my life. She really was a Wiccan Witch in her younger days and we really were married by a Wiccan priestess. I was a little doubtful about it at first, until after I checked with the county to confirm that she really was authorized to perform marriages. Incidentally, my wife never flew off on a broomstick, and considered the idea of Satan to be a malicious Christian invention.

Witchcraft was fun for her when she was young, but she dropped it in later years and became interested in Theosophy, which as you may know is a mix of Eastern religious ideas.

[Burninglight]

If our creator turns out the be the monster that the ancient Hebrews created then no one is safe, not even those who believe that they have a "plan" to avoid his unreasonable wrath. So if the Hebrews were right, then it will be a nightmare for everyone no matter what they believe or how desperately they tried to avoid the wrath of such an unreasonable God.

At least I'll have the memories of a time when I pretended that God might actually be nice.

Yes, I can understand you seeing the Hebrew God as a terror. It is written that all have sinned and come short of God's glory and the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ. We can be safe from the Hebrew's terrible God who is the only Creator through Christ. Jesus taught forgiveness and love your neighbor as yourself and to love God with all your mind heart and soul. God has made a way to escape his horrible judgments and a way to walk in peace love and happiness. He wouldn't take second place. His name is Jealous and He is real. He judged the Jews for their idols. He won't tolerate anyone's idols. Anything we put in front of Him is an idol

It is amazing how weak and desperate gods become when you stop believing in them!!!

Thanks for your concern about my salvation, Burninglight, but I have my own arrangements. My wife was a Wiccan Witch in her younger days and we were married by a Wiccan priestess in Washington state where witchcraft is a legally recognized religion. The Walpurgisnacht holiday is over for this year, so the witches have returned from their orgies with Satan and we once again have the protection of the full covens, as well as idle demons to do our bidding.

I think it is only fair to warn you... YOU ARE BEING WATCHED!!! Something is standing behind you at this very moment. Don't bother turning to look. If you actually caught a glimpse of it, it would then have to kill you, and that would be very unpleasant. The little demons that come to clean up after such messes are disgusting little things, scurrying around to gobble up scraps of your bloody flesh and carrying the bones home to gnaw on them.

Do you remember that loud thump which woke you from a sound sleep a few nights ago? It is only watching you now, but demons are often difficult to restrain, especially when they are hungry. I would advise you not to go out into the hallway to check on it, at least not before daylight.

And that creaking sound you sometimes hear in your attic? I promise you, you don't want to know what that is!!! My wife conjured it, but even she hesitates to talk about it.

You are surrounded and can't get away. If you don't believe me, go out in your backyard on the next bright moonlit night and look around you. See those moving shadows? And those glowing eyes? Is that really only a stray cat? When you hear that soft grunting sound approaching you, I advise you to go back inside.

Good luck. Why don't you say a few extra prayers tonight? Contrary to popular belief, demons aren't really bothered by such superstitions, but the prayers will probably make you feel better.

I have lived in the house of a witch with my wife. I heard violent knocking down stairs and chains rattling that woke me. It stopped when I woke and started back up when I fell asleep and woke me again. I ignored it went back to sleep and heard it again, but at the same time my wife was waking me telling me we needed to get out the house. I said why. She said the lady is a witch calling me through the floor. We didn't sleep and took turns reading the Bible and praying.

In the morning, we told the lady we were leaving and what happened. She said, Oh that's my great grandfather. He would bother you tonight I promise stay another night. So we did, and we weren't bothered, but we left all the same the next day. When we got to our next destination and opened our bags, laughing came out of the bag. So I rebuked it in Jesus name and it stopped.

So you don't have to convince me that demonic supernatural power is out there or that Wiccan are able to tap into it. It has a certain draw to it, but I have chose to reject it and chose Christ Jesus. Greater is He in Me than him that is in the world!

http://contenderministries.org/wicca/response.php

[JohnPaul]

Burninglight wrote:

I have lived in the house of a witch with my wife. I heard violent knocking down stairs and chains rattling that woke me. It stopped when I woke and started back up when I fell asleep and woke me again. I ignored it went back to sleep and heard it again, but at the same time my wife was waking me telling me we needed to get out the house. I said why. She said the lady is a witch calling me through the floor. We didn't sleep and took turns reading the Bible and praying.

In the morning, we told the lady we were leaving and what happened. She said, Oh that's my great grandfather. He would bother you tonight I promise stay another night. So we did, and we weren't bothered, but we left all the same the next day. When we got to our next destination and opened our bags, laughing came out of the bag. So I rebuked it in Jesus name and it stopped.

So you don't have to convince me that demonic supernatural power is out there or that Wiccan are able to tap into it. It has a certain draw to it, but I have chose to reject it and chose Christ Jesus. Greater is He in Me than him that is in the world!

Rattling chains? Laughing from the bag? Those are only playful ghosts, not real demons. They won't hurt you. Go back to sleep.

[JohnPaul]

My wife was a Wiccan Witch in her younger days and we were married by a Wiccan priestess in Washington state where witchcraft is a legally recognized religion.

Oh you lucky dog! I've been lucky enough to have befriended some truly wonderful witches, but I haven't been fortunate enough to find one willing to jump over the besom with me.

Have you ever rode on a besom over your roof top in the rain?

No, but my wife rode on a Honda 450 over the Coast Range in the snow.

[Divine Insight]

Thanks. She was a wonderful wife, and by far the best years of my life. She really was a Wiccan Witch in her younger days and we really were married by a Wiccan priestess. I was a little doubtful about it at first, until after I checked with the county to confirm that she really was authorized to perform marriages. Incidentally, my wife never flew off on a broomstick, and considered the idea of Satan to be a malicious Christian invention.

Exactly. Satan is just as fallacious as Jesus. They go together for sure like two peas in a pod. Jesus would have no purpose if it wasn't for Satan. So Satan gives Jesus purpose and without Satan Jesus would be meaningless.

A Christian must place Satan before Jesus, because until they believe in Satan they would have no need to be "saved". Without Satan they have nothing to be "saved" from. So before they even need to believe in Jesus, they must first have faith in Satan.

Witchcraft was fun for her when she was young, but she dropped it in later years and became interested in Theosophy, which as you may know is a mix of Eastern religious ideas.

I did it just the opposite way around. I actually studied the Eastern Mystical philosophies quite intensely from about the 1970's on. I only became interested in "Wicca" very recently (within the past 7 years).

I call it it "Wicca" but that's arguably an incorrect label. In fact, many "Wiccans" who are members of a coven would be highly likely to renounce my spiritual views as not being "Wicca". I take a very abstract "Solitary" approach to "Wicca" and my approach is quite very pantheistic, or even animistic, if you like. It's a very abstract paradigm for me. I view both the Moon Goddess and the Sun God as abstract psychic symbols. Symbolized by the Moon and Sun of course. The dynamics of those celestial symbols are very useful and quite productive in a ritual and "religious" sense.

Many of my views on Witchcraft and Wicca are actually quite philosophical and very abstract. I don't view the Moon Goddess and Sun God as actual personified deities. They are "psychic creations" that I have created in my own consciousness. They do, however, serve as psychic vessels for communique with the cosmic consciousness. As do all of the "characters" in my spiritual paradigm.

I actually have a total of 15 consistent spiritual entities in my Wicca Paradigm that I visit with often in shamanic journeys. This may seem "polytheistic" to people who do not understand, but it's not polytheistic at all. The "polytheism" is on my side of things. I have created all of these spiritual entities because they serve my purpose for divine communique.

It's really not at all unlike what the Christians have done with all their angels, saints, Mother Mary, Jesus, the Father, The Holy Spirit, etc, plus Satan, can't leave Satan out that's an crucial part of their spiritual pantheon.

In a similar way I have created sylphs (or faeries) which are similar to angels, in fact, ever sylph I've ever met has been very angelic in terms of behavior and persona. I have The Moon Goddess, and the Sun God, which could be thought of as the Mother and Father analogous with the Mother Mary and the God of Abraham in Christianity. I also have many other deities which could be thought of in terms of "saints". I prefer to think of them as Enchantresses and Sages.

I don't have anything in my spiritual paradigm that could be an analogy for the Christian Satan. My spiritual paradigm simple doesn't require an evil entity.

About the closest thing I have to "demonic spirits" would be mischievous gnomes, or salamanders. Like the ones who rattle chains or laugh out of luggage or whatever. Just harmless pranksters who are trying to scare people.

There simply is no need for evil in my spiritual paradigm. It's just not a useful element for me personally.

But yeah, I brought the theosophy to "Wicca" and created a "Wicca" that is in harmony with my theosophy. So there is no conflict.

But if I were to try to join a coven there would probably be tons of conflict. So my version of "Wicca" is entirely a Solitary version. It contains all the primal fundamental elements of "Wicca" without the political dogma of a coven.

[Philomath]

I will start off by saying that my understanding of Eastern religions is limited, I am a "westerner" and as such, understanding the logic of eastern thinking is sometimes difficult for me, and my experience and knowledge of Hinduism and Buddhism are limited.

That said, what is the difference between:

Brahman and non-existence?

Nirvana and non-existence?

Both of them, with Nirvana in particular, don't seem to be all that different from non-existence. If the Atman/Consciousness is not self-aware but is essentially a disembodied consciousness floating around, how is that different from your consciousness simply ceasing to exist?

I think when people are in an accident and fall into a coma or a vegetable state that would be equal to nirvana IMO. People in eastern religions try to do this without being in an accident, and Brahman is one of three gods Vishnu is another I don't know the third

That is not what Nirvana is. You've mistaken Brahma with Brahman. Brahman is the only God that exists in Hinduism.

[JohnPaul]

I will start off by saying that my understanding of Eastern religions is limited, I am a "westerner" and as such, understanding the logic of eastern thinking is sometimes difficult for me, and my experience and knowledge of Hinduism and Buddhism are limited.

That said, what is the difference between:

Brahman and non-existence?

Nirvana and non-existence?

Both of them, with Nirvana in particular, don't seem to be all that different from non-existence. If the Atman/Consciousness is not self-aware but is essentially a disembodied consciousness floating around, how is that different from your consciousness simply ceasing to exist?

I think when people are in an accident and fall into a coma or a vegetable state that would be equal to nirvana IMO. People in eastern religions try to do this without being in an accident, and Brahman is one of three gods Vishnu is another I don't know the third

That is not what Nirvana is not. You've mistaken Brahma with Brahman. Brahman is the only God that exists in Hinduism.

Brahman is the only God that exists at the more abstract intellectual and philosophical levels of Hinduism, but it does provide many gods for the entertainment of the masses.