Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.
The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!
Did Allah start Christianty?
Moderator: Moderators
-
Burninglight
- Guru
- Posts: 1202
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
-
Burninglight
- Guru
- Posts: 1202
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
Proof Allah deceives
Post #2This question to Mulsims that would deny that Jesus died and rose and deny that Allah deceives: "Who made people believe that Jesus died on the Cross although he was not crucified? Who managed to make it appear so? Was it not Allah? Didn't Allah performed a greater deception than even the enemies of Jesus who wanted him dead, and because of the deception of Allah, the majority of people believe until this day that Jesus died on the cross — according to the author of the Qur'an?"
The Bible states that Satan is the "father of lies and the author of confusion." The Quran states that Allah is "The best of deceivers" Although Muslim translations are trying to lose the meaning of the "Makr" of Allah and say he is "the best of planners," but scholars know better.
So, in a sense, Allah's deception was the author of Christianity a religon he didn't understand. He thought the trinity consisted of the father, son and Mary. What is confusing is why would Allah cause a religion that over powers Islam? Allah appears not to have realized or he didn't know that his deception would be the cause of a religion greater than Islam, and a religion he doesn't understand! This is confusion and it doesn't make sense and it isn't logical. Why would he save Jesus just to end up destroying billions of souls for eternity that believe He died and rose as the son of God. That is is not only not logical it is stupid! How do Muslim reconcile this?????????
The Bible states that Satan is the "father of lies and the author of confusion." The Quran states that Allah is "The best of deceivers" Although Muslim translations are trying to lose the meaning of the "Makr" of Allah and say he is "the best of planners," but scholars know better.
So, in a sense, Allah's deception was the author of Christianity a religon he didn't understand. He thought the trinity consisted of the father, son and Mary. What is confusing is why would Allah cause a religion that over powers Islam? Allah appears not to have realized or he didn't know that his deception would be the cause of a religion greater than Islam, and a religion he doesn't understand! This is confusion and it doesn't make sense and it isn't logical. Why would he save Jesus just to end up destroying billions of souls for eternity that believe He died and rose as the son of God. That is is not only not logical it is stupid! How do Muslim reconcile this?????????
-
LaaIlahaIllAllah
- Student
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:09 pm
Re: Did Allah start Christianty?
Post #3I didn't really read your all of your comments but to save time, the answer is no.Burninglight wrote: ...
Like, come on man these are just sad attacks at Islam.. You already know the real answer you just like to stir up trouble like a shaytan!
Obviously God does not create misguidance. Even you (hopefully) know that. You need to look at it from the other person's shoes sometimes to see the answer. For example a Christian would not think that God actually was responsible for Islam or Hinduism, that He somehow made a mistake doing so (God is far exalted above mistakes, imperfections, begetting children and the like).
Another example is something like did God create the poverty around the world? Is God at fault for some people going to hell for their disobedience?
Of course not. The answer for these, also for your question, is that these are the doings of people who did not follow the Light and Guidance that was sent down by God but chose to follow their own whims and desires.
And even this thing that you repeat on every single thread that you go on, that God making it seem to the people that prophet Jesus, peace be upon him, was crucified is the cause of Christianity - this is totally off and erroneous for 101 reasons b/c being made to look as one was killed does not = being made to look like this one is a god or a son of God or what have you. And we go like this through all the other Christian teachings.
A fair-minded Christian would not have even tried to pull such folly as you have attempted here, or everywhere for that matter.
____________________
{They say, "Be Jews or Christians [so] you will be guided." Say, "Rather, [we follow] the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth, and he was not of the polytheists."
Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."}
[ Surat Al-Baqarah/2 vs. 135-136 ]
Post #4
BISMILLAH,
QUOTE: "This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this"
ANSWER: Can you please elaborate what some of these Muslims are telling you, I don't understand what you are referring to when you say "God doesn't do this"??? God does whatever He wills and is able to do as He likes. He is the best of planners, the All-Mighty.
QUOTE: "The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners,in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving�
ANSWER: I believe the verse in the Quran your referring to (correct me if I am wrong) is:
Quran: 3:54
“And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners�
The reason why this verse was revealed was because, as stated by God that the Children of Israel tried to kill Jesus by conspiring to defame him and crucify him. They complained about him to the king who was a disbeliever. They claimed that Jesus was a man who misguided people, discouraged them from obeying the king, caused division, and separated between man and his own son.
They also said other lies about Jesus, which they will carry on their necks, including accusing him of being an illegitimate son. The king became furious and sent his men to capture Jesus to torture and crucify him. When they surrounded Jesus’ home and he thought that they would surely capture him, God saved him from them, raising him up from the house to heaven.
God put the image of Jesus’ on a man who was in the house, when the unjust people went in the house while it was still dark, they thought that he was Jesus’. They captured that man, humiliated and crucified him. They also placed thorns on his head.
However, God deceived these people. He saved and raised His Prophet from them, leaving them in disarray in the darkness of their transgression, thinking that they had successfully achieved their goal. God made their hearts hard, and defiant of the truth, disgracing them in such disgrace that it will remain with them until the Day of Resurrection.
If your argument is to suggest that God deceives or schemes on his enemies. Where is the evil in this?? There is a difference when you deceive someone that has done no harm to you, or when you deceive someone to cause them harm, such as Satan. God is helping out his prophet, He is helping the good people by planning against the bad people who are trying to do something bad. God does not deceive good people to harm them as Satan does, God just plots and plans on his enemies when they plan and plot against him, such as to kill his prophet or harm the Muslims.
QUOTE: “so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be�
“ This question to Mulsims that would deny that Jesus died and rose and deny that Allah deceives: "Who made people believe that Jesus died on the Cross although he was not crucified? Who managed to make it appear so? Was it not Allah? Didn't Allah performed a greater deception than even the enemies of Jesus who wanted him dead, and because of the deception of Allah, the majority of people believe until this day that Jesus died on the cross — according to the author of the Qur'an?"
ANSWER: God sent his Messenger Jesus to proclaim and correct the people of his time and to lead them back to the message all the Prophets came with, to worship one God and not to associate any partners to him (Islamic Monotheism). How can God be blamed for the faults, errors and misguidance of his creation? Of course God knows everything before it happens but this does not mean he deceived people to commit sins and cause them to go astray. Otherwise this would mean that people would have no free will. Islam acknowledges the truth about Jesus and affirms his mission and purpose clearly in the Quran. The Quran is the word of God it has no author.
QUOTE: “The Bible states that Satan is the "father of lies and the author of confusion." The Quran states that Allah is "The best of deceivers" Although Muslim translations are trying to lose the meaning of the "Makr" of Allah and say he is "the best of planners," but scholars know better�
ANSWER: To liken God to satan isn’t going to work because satan deceives to cause harm and send people to hell, Allah does not, I would like to see evidence where Allah intends evil on the Muslims.
QUOTE: “So, in a sense, Allah's deception was the author of Christianity a religon he didn't understand. He thought the trinity consisted of the father, son and Mary. What is confusing is why would Allah cause a religion that over powers Islam? Allah appears not to have realized or he didn't know that his deception would be the cause of a religion greater than Islam, and a religion he doesn't understand! This is confusion and it doesn't make sense and it isn't logical. Why would he save Jesus just to end up destroying billions of souls for eternity that believe He died and rose as the son of God. That is is not only not logical it is stupid! How do Muslim reconcile this?????????�
ANSWER: No, people going astray is the author of current day Christianity, God knows very well the true religion he gave Jesus to proclaim (the original Injeel). God strongly objects to the concept of trinity as stated in the
Quran: 4:171:
“O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs�
You are entitled to your own opinion but I don’t believe Christianity is greater than Islam, because falsehood is bound to perish (no offense) so it cannot be greater in my view. It is not God that has destroyed billions of souls for eternity it is themselves, no one will bear the burden of another soul on the day of resurrection, each person will be accountable for their own sins and decisions they have made in life, every person has been given logic, a brain, understanding and reason to seek the truth leaving aside all forms of desires, hardships, temptations, linage, and cultural practices. God is the best of Judges and we will be dealt with accordingly.
Hope this answers your questions.
QUOTE: "This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this"
ANSWER: Can you please elaborate what some of these Muslims are telling you, I don't understand what you are referring to when you say "God doesn't do this"??? God does whatever He wills and is able to do as He likes. He is the best of planners, the All-Mighty.
QUOTE: "The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners,in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving�
ANSWER: I believe the verse in the Quran your referring to (correct me if I am wrong) is:
Quran: 3:54
“And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners�
The reason why this verse was revealed was because, as stated by God that the Children of Israel tried to kill Jesus by conspiring to defame him and crucify him. They complained about him to the king who was a disbeliever. They claimed that Jesus was a man who misguided people, discouraged them from obeying the king, caused division, and separated between man and his own son.
They also said other lies about Jesus, which they will carry on their necks, including accusing him of being an illegitimate son. The king became furious and sent his men to capture Jesus to torture and crucify him. When they surrounded Jesus’ home and he thought that they would surely capture him, God saved him from them, raising him up from the house to heaven.
God put the image of Jesus’ on a man who was in the house, when the unjust people went in the house while it was still dark, they thought that he was Jesus’. They captured that man, humiliated and crucified him. They also placed thorns on his head.
However, God deceived these people. He saved and raised His Prophet from them, leaving them in disarray in the darkness of their transgression, thinking that they had successfully achieved their goal. God made their hearts hard, and defiant of the truth, disgracing them in such disgrace that it will remain with them until the Day of Resurrection.
If your argument is to suggest that God deceives or schemes on his enemies. Where is the evil in this?? There is a difference when you deceive someone that has done no harm to you, or when you deceive someone to cause them harm, such as Satan. God is helping out his prophet, He is helping the good people by planning against the bad people who are trying to do something bad. God does not deceive good people to harm them as Satan does, God just plots and plans on his enemies when they plan and plot against him, such as to kill his prophet or harm the Muslims.
QUOTE: “so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be�
“ This question to Mulsims that would deny that Jesus died and rose and deny that Allah deceives: "Who made people believe that Jesus died on the Cross although he was not crucified? Who managed to make it appear so? Was it not Allah? Didn't Allah performed a greater deception than even the enemies of Jesus who wanted him dead, and because of the deception of Allah, the majority of people believe until this day that Jesus died on the cross — according to the author of the Qur'an?"
ANSWER: God sent his Messenger Jesus to proclaim and correct the people of his time and to lead them back to the message all the Prophets came with, to worship one God and not to associate any partners to him (Islamic Monotheism). How can God be blamed for the faults, errors and misguidance of his creation? Of course God knows everything before it happens but this does not mean he deceived people to commit sins and cause them to go astray. Otherwise this would mean that people would have no free will. Islam acknowledges the truth about Jesus and affirms his mission and purpose clearly in the Quran. The Quran is the word of God it has no author.
QUOTE: “The Bible states that Satan is the "father of lies and the author of confusion." The Quran states that Allah is "The best of deceivers" Although Muslim translations are trying to lose the meaning of the "Makr" of Allah and say he is "the best of planners," but scholars know better�
ANSWER: To liken God to satan isn’t going to work because satan deceives to cause harm and send people to hell, Allah does not, I would like to see evidence where Allah intends evil on the Muslims.
QUOTE: “So, in a sense, Allah's deception was the author of Christianity a religon he didn't understand. He thought the trinity consisted of the father, son and Mary. What is confusing is why would Allah cause a religion that over powers Islam? Allah appears not to have realized or he didn't know that his deception would be the cause of a religion greater than Islam, and a religion he doesn't understand! This is confusion and it doesn't make sense and it isn't logical. Why would he save Jesus just to end up destroying billions of souls for eternity that believe He died and rose as the son of God. That is is not only not logical it is stupid! How do Muslim reconcile this?????????�
ANSWER: No, people going astray is the author of current day Christianity, God knows very well the true religion he gave Jesus to proclaim (the original Injeel). God strongly objects to the concept of trinity as stated in the
Quran: 4:171:
“O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs�
You are entitled to your own opinion but I don’t believe Christianity is greater than Islam, because falsehood is bound to perish (no offense) so it cannot be greater in my view. It is not God that has destroyed billions of souls for eternity it is themselves, no one will bear the burden of another soul on the day of resurrection, each person will be accountable for their own sins and decisions they have made in life, every person has been given logic, a brain, understanding and reason to seek the truth leaving aside all forms of desires, hardships, temptations, linage, and cultural practices. God is the best of Judges and we will be dealt with accordingly.
Hope this answers your questions.
-
Burninglight
- Guru
- Posts: 1202
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
Re: Did Allah start Christianty?
Post #5God doesn't create misguidance but Allah does. You said you didn't read all my comments; well, you need to. It shows how your god Allah creates misguidance and I prove it unequivocally. I am not interest in spreading untruth about Islam. I don't have time to waste.LaaIlahaIllAllah wrote:I didn't really read your all of your comments but to save time, the answer is no.Burninglight wrote: ...
Like, come on man these are just sad attacks at Islam.. You already know the real answer you just like to stir up trouble like a shaytan!
Obviously God does not create misguidance. Even you (hopefully) know that. You need to look at it from the other person's shoes sometimes to see the answer. For example a Christian would not think that God actually was responsible for Islam or Hinduism, that He somehow made a mistake doing so (God is far exalted above mistakes, imperfections, begetting children and the like).
Another example is something like did God create the poverty around the world? Is God at fault for some people going to hell for their disobedience?
Of course not. The answer for these, also for your question, is that these are the doings of people who did not follow the Light and Guidance that was sent down by God but chose to follow their own whims and desires.
And even this thing that you repeat on every single thread that you go on, that God making it seem to the people that prophet Jesus, peace be upon him, was crucified is the cause of Christianity - this is totally off and erroneous for 101 reasons b/c being made to look as one was killed does not = being made to look like this one is a god or a son of God or what have you. And we go like this through all the other Christian teachings.
A fair-minded Christian would not have even tried to pull such folly as you have attempted here, or everywhere for that matter.
____________________
{They say, "Be Jews or Christians [so] you will be guided." Say, "Rather, [we follow] the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth, and he was not of the polytheists."
Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."}
[ Surat Al-Baqarah/2 vs. 135-136 ]
Ishmael is no prophet and he is not the child of promise. To say he is, that is a misguidance too. Ishmael was rejected by God and Abraham as the child of promise, but he was blessed. Gen 21:12
Allah making it look like Jesus died has been a catalyst for Christianity. If there were no death of Jesus, there would be no resurrection; hence, there would be no Christianity. Let's call a spade a spade. The real deception of Allah was to get you to believe He didn't die so he could claim you for a Christless eternity where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth!
BTW, you are being disrespectful by saying, "You already know the real answer you just like to stir up trouble like a shaytan!" in this sentence you have called me a liar, trouble maker and a devil (Satan). This I have not done to you. If you do it again, I'll report you! Please don't do it again. Thank you for understanding.
What attacks Islam is knowledge and truth; what helps it grow is ignorance and deception. I am out to share the truth about it and use well backed up research that is verifiable.
PBUY
Last edited by Burninglight on Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
Burninglight
- Guru
- Posts: 1202
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
Post #6
Yes, elaboration: Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, what's up with it. It is self explanatory. Allah allow someone to die on the cross allowing people to believe it was Jesus. Of course, this is not true, but you believe it; so, isn't that a form of someone dying for someone else (Jesus in this case) to get Jesus off the hook like Jesus died for us so we don't have to go to hell in an eternal death? Someone died to spare Jesus.HaLi8993 wrote: BISMILLAH,
QUOTE: "This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this"
ANSWER: Can you please elaborate what some of these Muslims are telling you, I don't understand what you are referring to when you say "God doesn't do this"??? God does whatever He wills and is able to do as He likes. He is the best of planners, the All-Mighty.
QUOTE: "The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners,in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving�
ANSWER: I believe the verse in the Quran your referring to (correct me if I am wrong) is:
Quran: 3:54
“And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners�
The reason why this verse was revealed was because, as stated by God that the Children of Israel tried to kill Jesus by conspiring to defame him and crucify him. They complained about him to the king who was a disbeliever. They claimed that Jesus was a man who misguided people, discouraged them from obeying the king, caused division, and separated between man and his own son.
They also said other lies about Jesus, which they will carry on their necks, including accusing him of being an illegitimate son. The king became furious and sent his men to capture Jesus to torture and crucify him. When they surrounded Jesus’ home and he thought that they would surely capture him, God saved him from them, raising him up from the house to heaven.
God put the image of Jesus’ on a man who was in the house, when the unjust people went in the house while it was still dark, they thought that he was Jesus’. They captured that man, humiliated and crucified him. They also placed thorns on his head.
However, God deceived these people. He saved and raised His Prophet from them, leaving them in disarray in the darkness of their transgression, thinking that they had successfully achieved their goal. God made their hearts hard, and defiant of the truth, disgracing them in such disgrace that it will remain with them until the Day of Resurrection.
If your argument is to suggest that God deceives or schemes on his enemies. Where is the evil in this?? There is a difference when you deceive someone that has done no harm to you, or when you deceive someone to cause them harm, such as Satan. God is helping out his prophet, He is helping the good people by planning against the bad people who are trying to do something bad. God does not deceive good people to harm them as Satan does, God just plots and plans on his enemies when they plan and plot against him, such as to kill his prophet or harm the Muslims.
QUOTE: “so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be�
“ This question to Mulsims that would deny that Jesus died and rose and deny that Allah deceives: "Who made people believe that Jesus died on the Cross although he was not crucified? Who managed to make it appear so? Was it not Allah? Didn't Allah performed a greater deception than even the enemies of Jesus who wanted him dead, and because of the deception of Allah, the majority of people believe until this day that Jesus died on the cross — according to the author of the Qur'an?"
ANSWER: God sent his Messenger Jesus to proclaim and correct the people of his time and to lead them back to the message all the Prophets came with, to worship one God and not to associate any partners to him (Islamic Monotheism). How can God be blamed for the faults, errors and misguidance of his creation? Of course God knows everything before it happens but this does not mean he deceived people to commit sins and cause them to go astray. Otherwise this would mean that people would have no free will. Islam acknowledges the truth about Jesus and affirms his mission and purpose clearly in the Quran. The Quran is the word of God it has no author.
QUOTE: “The Bible states that Satan is the "father of lies and the author of confusion." The Quran states that Allah is "The best of deceivers" Although Muslim translations are trying to lose the meaning of the "Makr" of Allah and say he is "the best of planners," but scholars know better�
ANSWER: To liken God to satan isn’t going to work because satan deceives to cause harm and send people to hell, Allah does not, I would like to see evidence where Allah intends evil on the Muslims.
QUOTE: “So, in a sense, Allah's deception was the author of Christianity a religon he didn't understand. He thought the trinity consisted of the father, son and Mary. What is confusing is why would Allah cause a religion that over powers Islam? Allah appears not to have realized or he didn't know that his deception would be the cause of a religion greater than Islam, and a religion he doesn't understand! This is confusion and it doesn't make sense and it isn't logical. Why would he save Jesus just to end up destroying billions of souls for eternity that believe He died and rose as the son of God. That is is not only not logical it is stupid! How do Muslim reconcile this?????????�
ANSWER: No, people going astray is the author of current day Christianity, God knows very well the true religion he gave Jesus to proclaim (the original Injeel). God strongly objects to the concept of trinity as stated in the
Quran: 4:171:
“O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs�
You are entitled to your own opinion but I don’t believe Christianity is greater than Islam, because falsehood is bound to perish (no offense) so it cannot be greater in my view. It is not God that has destroyed billions of souls for eternity it is themselves, no one will bear the burden of another soul on the day of resurrection, each person will be accountable for their own sins and decisions they have made in life, every person has been given logic, a brain, understanding and reason to seek the truth leaving aside all forms of desires, hardships, temptations, linage, and cultural practices. God is the best of Judges and we will be dealt with accordingly.
Hope this answers your questions.
You said, Allah said, "And do not say, "Three"; desist -" Well, Allah didn't know who the three were. He alludes to the being himself, Jesus and Mary. Allah thought Christians believed Allah was the third person of the trinity. He isn't Allah never mentioned the Holy Spirit. How can an all knowing God be profoundly ignorant. It is not like the truth wasn't out there. It is just that Muhammad never carefully research true Christian beliefs when reciting the Quran or did Uthman corrupt the Quran when he burned all the originals and edited it making or turning Allah's word into his own version?
Post #7
QUOTE: "Yes, elaboration: Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, what's up with it. It is self explanatory. Allah allow someone to die on the cross allowing people to believe it was Jesus. Of course, this is not true, but you believe it; so, isn't that a form of someone dying for someone else (Jesus in this case) to get Jesus off the hook like Jesus died for us so we don't have to go to hell in an eternal death? Someone died to spare Jesus"
ANSWER: No, we don't believe that the person died for Jesus (peace be upon him) God set that scenario where by that person whoever it may of been was taken to be crucified instead of Jesus (peace be upon him), so you cannot say he died for Jesus (peace be upon him), hence you cannot use the same analogy as Jesus (peace be upon him) dying for your sins.
QUOTE: ''You said, Allah said, "And do not say, "Three"; desist -" Well, Allah didn't know who the three were. He alludes to the being himself, Jesus and Mary. Allah thought Christians believed Allah was the third person of the trinity. He isn't Allah never mentioned the Holy Spirit. How can an All-Knowing God be profoundly ignorant. It is not like the truth wasn't out there. It is just that Muhammad never carefully research true Christian beliefs when reciting the Quran or did Uthman corrupt the Quran when he burned all the originals and edited it making or turning Allah's word into his own version?''
ANSWER: If God as we believe did not accept the concept of trinity then how is He alluding this to himself? Allah is All-Knowing what makes you believe he didn't know who the holy spirit is? The Quran was revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him) it is the word of God hence he did not need to research into Christianity, and about Uthman corrupting the Quran this is again a false claim against Islam refer to your other post once I post it.
ANSWER: No, we don't believe that the person died for Jesus (peace be upon him) God set that scenario where by that person whoever it may of been was taken to be crucified instead of Jesus (peace be upon him), so you cannot say he died for Jesus (peace be upon him), hence you cannot use the same analogy as Jesus (peace be upon him) dying for your sins.
QUOTE: ''You said, Allah said, "And do not say, "Three"; desist -" Well, Allah didn't know who the three were. He alludes to the being himself, Jesus and Mary. Allah thought Christians believed Allah was the third person of the trinity. He isn't Allah never mentioned the Holy Spirit. How can an All-Knowing God be profoundly ignorant. It is not like the truth wasn't out there. It is just that Muhammad never carefully research true Christian beliefs when reciting the Quran or did Uthman corrupt the Quran when he burned all the originals and edited it making or turning Allah's word into his own version?''
ANSWER: If God as we believe did not accept the concept of trinity then how is He alluding this to himself? Allah is All-Knowing what makes you believe he didn't know who the holy spirit is? The Quran was revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him) it is the word of God hence he did not need to research into Christianity, and about Uthman corrupting the Quran this is again a false claim against Islam refer to your other post once I post it.
-
Burninglight
- Guru
- Posts: 1202
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
Post #8
Okay, I just asked. It seems like Allah allowed someone to die in Jesus' place to get the heat off Him. I see it as subsitutionary, but not in the same way Jesus died for us.HaLi8993 wrote: QUOTE: "Yes, elaboration: Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, what's up with it. It is self explanatory. Allah allow someone to die on the cross allowing people to believe it was Jesus. Of course, this is not true, but you believe it; so, isn't that a form of someone dying for someone else (Jesus in this case) to get Jesus off the hook like Jesus died for us so we don't have to go to hell in an eternal death? Someone died to spare Jesus"
ANSWER: No, we don't believe that the person died for Jesus (peace be upon him) God set that scenario where by that person whoever it may of been was taken to be crucified instead of Jesus (peace be upon him), so you cannot say he died for Jesus (peace be upon him), hence you cannot use the same analogy as Jesus (peace be upon him) dying for your sins.
QUOTE: ''You said, Allah said, "And do not say, "Three"; desist -" Well, Allah didn't know who the three were. He alludes to the being himself, Jesus and Mary. Allah thought Christians believed Allah was the third person of the trinity. He isn't Allah never mentioned the Holy Spirit. How can an All-Knowing God be profoundly ignorant. It is not like the truth wasn't out there. It is just that Muhammad never carefully research true Christian beliefs when reciting the Quran or did Uthman corrupt the Quran when he burned all the originals and edited it making or turning Allah's word into his own version?''
ANSWER: If God as we believe did not accept the concept of trinity then how is He alluding this to himself? Allah is All-Knowing what makes you believe he didn't know who the holy spirit is? The Quran was revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him) it is the word of God hence he did not need to research into Christianity, and about Uthman corrupting the Quran this is again a false claim against Islam refer to your other post once I post it.
As far as, Muhammad and Allah not knowing what Christians believed about the trinity, that is replete in the Quran. It is the Quran that's accusing Christians of believing Allah was the third person of the 3 he say "say not." It was Allah that asks Jesus about Mary being God, and it was Allah that asked Jesus about Him being God.
No where does Allah or Muhammad mention the Holy Spirit who is God! Why such an obvious omission? Other people (Non Muslims) during the forming of the Quran could've given a better argument against the trinity than Muhammad and Allah. Why didn't they know the truth of what we Christians believed? He didn't even understand the Catholics! They never believed Mary was part of the trinity or God.
Allah never knew that the third person of the trinity was and is the Holy Spirit. Allah also didn't understand that Christians believe there is only one God. Jesus is our connection to Him sort of like Muhammad is your connection to Allah. The difference is Jesus is not our messenger; He is our MESSAGE!
Don't tell that is not so about your need to confess the name of Muhammad. It is built into the second part of your shahadah. You seem to try and worm your way out of each point I address, but that may satisfy you but not those that search the Scriptures critically.
We are commanded not to believe every spirit and to try them to see if they be of God. Even the Quran challenges us to find discrepancies. A god who is profoundly ignorant of what true Christians believe is a major discrepancy to me. I don't know how you can go another day in Islam.
It is no accident God put us across one another's paths. I tell you in love by faith, you are going down the wrong road!
Post #9
@Burninglight
BISMILLAH,
QUOTE: “Okay, I just asked. It seems like Allah allowed someone to die in Jesus' place to get the heat off Him. I see it as subsitutionary, but not in the same way Jesus died for us.
As far as, Muhammad and Allah not knowing what Christians believed about the trinity, that is replete in the Quran. It is the Quran that's accusing Christians of believing Allah was the third person of the 3 he say "say not." It was Allah that asks Jesus about Mary being God, and it was Allah that asked Jesus about Him being God
No where does Allah or Muhammad mention the Holy Spirit who is God! Why such an obvious omission? Other people (Non Muslims) during the forming of the Quran could've given a better argument against the trinity than Muhammad and Allah. Why didn't they know the truth of what we Christians believed? He didn't even understand the Catholics! They never believed Mary was part of the trinity or God"
ANSWER: As mentioned previously God is All-Knowing He knows very well what Christians believe and will continue to believe in. When we look at the meaning of this verse Allah makes it very clear what Christans believe in:
Say not: "Three!" – the meaning of the verse: it means do not elevate Jesus and his mother to be gods with Allah. Allah is far holier than what they attribute to Him.
In Surat Al-Ma'idah (chapter 5), Allah said :
Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allah is the third of the three.'' But there is none who has the right to be worshipped but One God. Allah said by the end of the same Surah,
And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O `Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam! Did you say unto men: `Worship me''' and in its beginning, Surely, in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the Messiah, son of Maryam.
Furthermore when we read more of the meaning of the verse it states that some Christians believe that Jesus is Allah, some believe that he is one in a trinity and some believe that he is the son of Allah. Their beliefs and creeds are numerous and contradict each other.
QUOTE: “No where does Allah or Muhammad mention the Holy Spirit who is God! Why such an obvious omission? Other people (Non Muslims) during the forming of the Quran could've given a better argument against the trinity than Muhammad and Allah. Why didn't they know the truth of what we Christians believed? He didn't even understand the Catholics! They never believed Mary was part of the trinity or God�
ANSWER: When the Holy Spirit is mentioned in the Quran it is referring to the Angel Gabriel not the Holy Spirit as believed by Christians, this is evident in the Quran:
Quran:16:102
“Say, [O Muhammad], "The Pure Spirit has brought it down from your Lord in truth to make firm those who believe and as guidance and good tidings to the Muslims."
meaning, Jibril (Gabriel) has brought it down, you are well aware that the Quran was revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him) through Angel Gabriel, This is so that they will believe what was revealed earlier and what was revealed later, and humble themselves towards Allah.
QUOTE: “Allah never knew that the third person of the trinity was and is the Holy Spirit. Allah also didn't understand that Christians believe there is only one God. Jesus is our connection to Him sort of like Muhammad is your connection to Allah. The difference is Jesus is not our messenger; He is our MESSAGE!�
ANSWER: As mentioned above Allah knows all, Why don’t Christians directly ask God why would they need an intercessor? Surely this is as though you are placing Jesus above God, this is not what Jesus commanded nor what God wants from you, We as Muslims do not use Muhammad (peace be upon him) as a intercessor with God, this is shirk which is forbidden in Islam rather we follow his teachings which God commands us to follow as he was the final Messenger brought to mankind. When we are in need of something we ask God not Muhammad (peace be upon him).
QUOTE: “Don't tell that is not so about your need to confess the name of Muhammad. It is built into the second part of your shahadah. You seem to try and worm your way out of each point I address, but that may satisfy you but not those that search the Scriptures critically�
ANSWER: I really have no idea what you’re talking about,
QUOTE: “We are commanded not to believe every spirit and to try them to see if they be of God. Even the Quran challenges us to find discrepancies. A god who is profoundly ignorant of what true Christians believe is a major discrepancy to me. I don't know how you can go another day in Islam. It is no accident God put us across one another's paths. I tell you in love by faith, you are going down the wrong road!�
ANSWER: Please provide evidence so I know exactly what you are talking about, Likewise I feel the same way about the wrong road, I explained to you how God knows everything, there are absolutely no contradictions in the Quran I challenge you to find me one, I hope God opens your heart to see the truth. Amin
BISMILLAH,
QUOTE: “Okay, I just asked. It seems like Allah allowed someone to die in Jesus' place to get the heat off Him. I see it as subsitutionary, but not in the same way Jesus died for us.
As far as, Muhammad and Allah not knowing what Christians believed about the trinity, that is replete in the Quran. It is the Quran that's accusing Christians of believing Allah was the third person of the 3 he say "say not." It was Allah that asks Jesus about Mary being God, and it was Allah that asked Jesus about Him being God
No where does Allah or Muhammad mention the Holy Spirit who is God! Why such an obvious omission? Other people (Non Muslims) during the forming of the Quran could've given a better argument against the trinity than Muhammad and Allah. Why didn't they know the truth of what we Christians believed? He didn't even understand the Catholics! They never believed Mary was part of the trinity or God"
ANSWER: As mentioned previously God is All-Knowing He knows very well what Christians believe and will continue to believe in. When we look at the meaning of this verse Allah makes it very clear what Christans believe in:
Say not: "Three!" – the meaning of the verse: it means do not elevate Jesus and his mother to be gods with Allah. Allah is far holier than what they attribute to Him.
In Surat Al-Ma'idah (chapter 5), Allah said :
Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allah is the third of the three.'' But there is none who has the right to be worshipped but One God. Allah said by the end of the same Surah,
And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O `Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam! Did you say unto men: `Worship me''' and in its beginning, Surely, in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the Messiah, son of Maryam.
Furthermore when we read more of the meaning of the verse it states that some Christians believe that Jesus is Allah, some believe that he is one in a trinity and some believe that he is the son of Allah. Their beliefs and creeds are numerous and contradict each other.
QUOTE: “No where does Allah or Muhammad mention the Holy Spirit who is God! Why such an obvious omission? Other people (Non Muslims) during the forming of the Quran could've given a better argument against the trinity than Muhammad and Allah. Why didn't they know the truth of what we Christians believed? He didn't even understand the Catholics! They never believed Mary was part of the trinity or God�
ANSWER: When the Holy Spirit is mentioned in the Quran it is referring to the Angel Gabriel not the Holy Spirit as believed by Christians, this is evident in the Quran:
Quran:16:102
“Say, [O Muhammad], "The Pure Spirit has brought it down from your Lord in truth to make firm those who believe and as guidance and good tidings to the Muslims."
meaning, Jibril (Gabriel) has brought it down, you are well aware that the Quran was revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him) through Angel Gabriel, This is so that they will believe what was revealed earlier and what was revealed later, and humble themselves towards Allah.
QUOTE: “Allah never knew that the third person of the trinity was and is the Holy Spirit. Allah also didn't understand that Christians believe there is only one God. Jesus is our connection to Him sort of like Muhammad is your connection to Allah. The difference is Jesus is not our messenger; He is our MESSAGE!�
ANSWER: As mentioned above Allah knows all, Why don’t Christians directly ask God why would they need an intercessor? Surely this is as though you are placing Jesus above God, this is not what Jesus commanded nor what God wants from you, We as Muslims do not use Muhammad (peace be upon him) as a intercessor with God, this is shirk which is forbidden in Islam rather we follow his teachings which God commands us to follow as he was the final Messenger brought to mankind. When we are in need of something we ask God not Muhammad (peace be upon him).
QUOTE: “Don't tell that is not so about your need to confess the name of Muhammad. It is built into the second part of your shahadah. You seem to try and worm your way out of each point I address, but that may satisfy you but not those that search the Scriptures critically�
ANSWER: I really have no idea what you’re talking about,
QUOTE: “We are commanded not to believe every spirit and to try them to see if they be of God. Even the Quran challenges us to find discrepancies. A god who is profoundly ignorant of what true Christians believe is a major discrepancy to me. I don't know how you can go another day in Islam. It is no accident God put us across one another's paths. I tell you in love by faith, you are going down the wrong road!�
ANSWER: Please provide evidence so I know exactly what you are talking about, Likewise I feel the same way about the wrong road, I explained to you how God knows everything, there are absolutely no contradictions in the Quran I challenge you to find me one, I hope God opens your heart to see the truth. Amin
-
LaaIlahaIllAllah
- Student
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:09 pm
Re: Did Allah start Christianty?
Post #10Burninglight wrote: God doesn't create misguidance but Allah does
Not really, you just uselessly expanded on your title and I already knew what it was about since you repeat everything everywhere even though you get answers always... Also, you don't really prove anything lol and got refuted thousands of times over by every Muslim on here.You said you didn't read all my comments; well, you need to. It shows how your god Allah creates misguidance and I prove it unequivocally.
I think we both know this is a lie. You seem to have a lot of time to waste and are doing a good job at it.I am not interest in spreading untruth about Islam. I don't have time to waste.
the stuff in the middle is just useless stuff you repeat again and again. And again.. And refuted before and all that type a stuff
Lol, all you have been on here is disrespectful. Then you try to slide it off with this innocent talk, hahah whata hypocrite. Outside it's like this and inside it's something totally different eh sonny?BTW, you are being disrespectful by saying, "You already know the real answer you just like to stir up trouble like a shaytan!" in this sentence you have called me a liar, trouble maker and a devil (Satan). This I have not done to you. If you do it again, I'll report you! Please don't do it again. Thank you for understanding.
Actually. the funny part is that it's the Christian missionaries who are deceiving ignorant Christians like yourself. Or maybe you are the one deceiving the unknowing Christians. That's what I've been getting from your constant repetition of topics even though literally scores of people responded and refuted you! Well backed up research my foot!! Hahahah lol look just the thing you bring up with the "satanic verses" shows your lack of knowledge, truthfulness and sincerity!What attacks Islam is knowledge and truth; what helps it grow is ignorance and deception. I am out to share the truth about it and use well backed up research that is verifiable.
You constantly say one thing but act the totally opposite way.
Another funny thing is that you responded to everything in my comment except for the actual explanation and refutation, hahahahaha! Once again shows your true intentions! And also proves right what I have been saying about you all along!
