Do you Pray?

Argue for and against religions and philosophies which are not Christian

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Baz
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Do you Pray?

Post #1

Post by Baz »

I likes some questions posted in the Holy Huddle, obviously addressing Christians, as I and others are not allowed to post in that forum, I would like to ask any site members of any belief the same thing;
1) Do you pray?
2) How do you pray?
3) How often to you pray?
4) What do you think is the result of your prayers?




Personally 1/ I do pray. 2/ I pray in different ways at different times, the most common being conscious thought, but in a mish-mash of points that you could not make into a structured sentence. Usually asking for some form of understanding. 3/ no fixed amount, when I feel like it, on average 3-6 times a week. 4/ I often think I see things differently as a result.
\"Give me a good question over a good answer anyday.\"

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Post #11

Post by SailingCyclops »

HaLi8993 wrote: This would depend on the situation and the permissibility of the action. There are rulings to abide by in times of war and there are also rulings to abide by outside of war.
Right, but it all depends on your definition of "war". Holy war (Jihad) in Islam is war. It translates to war against the enemies of Islam.

So, the 14 hijackers were in a Jihad against the people who maintained infidel troops on holy Muslim land, and as such, were justified by your religion to execute the "action" which they did. Yes?

Religion flies you into buildings, Science flies you to the moon.
If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities -- Voltaire
Bless us and save us, said Mrs. O'Davis

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Post #12

Post by HaLi8993 »

@ Sailing Cyclops
Right, but it all depends on your definition of "war". Holy war (Jihad) in Islam is war. It translates to war against the enemies of Islam.
The word jihad means striving and expending one’s energy. Where in the history of warfare has there ever been a group of people that have not fought those that have waged war upon them???? The question is what were they fighting for??  
So, the 14 hijackers were in a Jihad against the people who maintained infidel troops on holy Muslim land, and as such, were justified by your religion to execute the "action" which they did. Yes?
As for the hijackers I have no knowledge of what circumstance they where in and the details of what took place, nor am I aware of the intentions they had nor why they did what they did, hence I cannot speak on their behalf. This would be the equivalent of me speaking on behalf of America that justifies a history of atrocities, aggression and oppression  for decades against innocent men women and children in foreign lands. In my opinion 9/11 was expected and understandable for years of violence against Muslims, one being the thousands of deformed innocent Iraqi babies and children with depleted nuclear bombs that took place in the heart of their homes, thats if indeed 9/11 was done by the Muslims to begin with!

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Post #13

Post by Baz »

It is amazing (well probably not) how when you start thinking and talking about man’s* relationship with god you soon start concentrating on man’s relationship with man.
It’s as if god was a lot less important!

I also find it difficult to understand how people who profess to a strong belief in their view of god and who commune with him* regularly, find it so important to follow written texts (however they interpret or translate them) isn't the direct line of communication better?



*Man meaning all mankind.
*Him not implying gender, but avoiding “It� (as it sounds too impersonal and could be thought to be disrespectful by some.)
\"Give me a good question over a good answer anyday.\"

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Post #14

Post by Baz »

Personally I have a great deal of respect for all followers of religious beliefs, (As you may have guessed from the multi-faith avatar) in so much as they have, believe they have, or are looking for a relationship with, understanding of god.
My problems start when books start to get in the way. Books can be wonderful things full of excitement, information, emotion, so on and so on. But even if you believe this or that book to be divinely inspired, it remains the work of man written, edited, compiled, translated and interpreted by an imperfect and often bias person or persons who must have had a personal viewpoints and often personal agendas.

Regardless of who has the best books; If somebody believes that there is a god of some description, that we can in some way be part of or communicate with, isn't that communication way more important than any old books no matter how you view them?
\"Give me a good question over a good answer anyday.\"

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Post #15

Post by HaLi8993 »

@ Baz

The entire reason for a Devine book speaks for itself, it is just that Devine, meaning from God a revelation, the true word of God. Free from all contradictions and defects. A Devine book cannot be written by man nor can it be edited, translated or interpreted without any reliable supportive evidence. If this were the case it would negate the divinity of the book making it unreliable thus not devine. There can only ever be one truth to our existence and there can only ever be one truth in regards to all aspects of life, the best book is the book of truth not what any individual claims the best book to be. Yes, no doubt communication with God is important but the method is likewise also important as we cannot interpret and create our own method of communication with God, as only what God prescribes as acceptable will be accepted by Him the All-Mighty, hence the reason He has sent a Devine book to be followed. The importance of following what God commands sets the boundary between truth and falsehood and man made interpretations and invention. Therefore the true revelation, (book) does matter however it is up too you and I to take the initiative to seek the truth only to realize the many evidences that point to the Quran being the final revelation sent by God for all of mankind being the true word of God. 

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Post #16

Post by A Troubled Man »

HaLi8993 wrote: In my opinion 9/11 was expected and understandable for years of violence against Muslims, one being the thousands of deformed innocent Iraqi babies and children with depleted nuclear bombs that took place in the heart of their homes, thats if indeed 9/11 was done by the Muslims to begin with!
Yes, Muslims flew commercial airliners into skyscrapers murdering thousands of people. It appears you have no problem with that.

Perhaps, Allah told them to do that considering revenge is tantamount in Islam.

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Post #17

Post by HaLi8993 »

@ A Troubled Man
Yes, Muslims flew commercial airliners into skyscrapers murdering thousands of people. It appears you have no problem with that. 

Perhaps, Allah told them to do that considering revenge is tantamount in Islam.
Hey hey A Troubled Man, nice to see you again. Long time no see! Knew you would be back.

Don't you think its time you got over 9/11 already just as all the atrocities committed against Muslims are. I realize that this is a sensitive topic for Americans but the actions of others shouldn't stop you from seeking the truth. 

God can't speak to ordinary people  A Troubled Man, you should know this by now lol, Islam urges us to be tolerant and forgive others. This is indicated in both the Quran and the Sunnah. Indeed one of the features of Islam is that it is a religion of mercy. A Muslim is encouraged to forgive when he is able to take revenge and be tolerant when people make mistakes. However at the same time we do not stand idol in the face of oppression and aggression hence why God has given the Muslim permission, if aggression is committed against him to take action in order to bring overall peace and stability to society. 

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Post #18

Post by A Troubled Man »

HaLi8993 wrote:
Don't you think its time you got over 9/11 already just as all the atrocities committed against Muslims are.
What atrocities? Please list the atrocities directly associated with those attacks?
God can't speak to ordinary people  A Troubled Man, you should know this by now lol
Actually, there are charlatans and frauds who claim gods speak to them, that they believe they are 'special'.
Islam urges us to be tolerant and forgive others. This is indicated in both the Quran and the Sunnah.
Yet, we find the Sunnah are not even tolerant to other Islamic sects, let alone the rest of the world. Whether it's written down in some holy book appears to be irrelevant to the reality of intolerance.
Indeed one of the features of Islam is that it is a religion of mercy.
Hardly, it appears more a militaristic ideology, one that is contrived to rule us all.
A Muslim is encouraged to forgive when he is able to take revenge and be tolerant when people make mistakes.
Revenge is tantamount to Islamic ideals as it encapsulates the Arab mindset of that time.
However at the same time we do not stand idol in the face of oppression and aggression hence why God has given the Muslim permission, if aggression is committed against him to take action in order to bring overall peace and stability to society. 
And, it is the interpretation of aggression Muslims seem to take advantage of whenever they feel the opportunity arises. We don't find much peace or stability within a Muslim state.

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Post #19

Post by HaLi8993 »

@ A Troubled Man
What atrocities? Please list the atrocities directly associated with those attacks?
 

Let us look a little into the history of America, they where involved in many wars and military action prior to 911, it has engaged in hundreds of wars against the Indians. Only five years after the end of the most disastrous war in the history of the world, America went to war with Korea, then helped the French in supporting them militarily then they were involved in Southeast Asia where they where bombing not only Vietnam but Cambodia and Laos and the list goes on.... they overthrew the government of Iran, even before the Russians were in Afghanistan, they were covertly sending arms to the rebel forces in Afghanistan, the mujahedeen. Some of these people turned out later to be the Taliban, the people who have suddenly become "enemies". 

The people that they once  supported, the fundamentalists, took power in Afghanistan and established their regime. Soon they were at war with Kuwait using this as an excuse to intensify military presence in that area and to station troops in Saudi Arabia, which then became one of the major offenses for Osama bin Laden and other Saudi Arabian nationalists. Then in the Clinton administration America was bombing Afghanistan, Sudan, Yugoslavia, and Iraq again. In fact, it is safe to say that since World War II, there has not been a more warlike nation in the world than the United States. Hence the reason we cannot overlook the growing enmity towards the United States. In its foreign policy, the United States has consigned several million people to their deaths and supported terrorist governments in various parts of the world, especially in Latin America and the Middle East. 

Then 9/11 happens and there is the invasion of Iraq along with all the torture that came along with it with the establishment of Abu Ghraib and Gauntanimo Bay with this came prisoner abuse including physical, psychological and sexual abuse such as murder, rape, electrocution, water-boarding etc, then came Afghanistan, Yemen and fighting in Kashmir. Now if this isn't a prime example of revenge I don't know what is. Therefore judging the religion of Islam and Muslims based on what happened on 911 bears no value. 
Actually, there are charlatans and frauds who claim gods speak to them, that they believe they are 'special'.
You said it yourself lol, they are charlatans and frauds! 
Yet, we find the Sunnah are not even tolerant to other Islamic sects, let alone the rest of the world. Whether it's written down in some holy book appears to be irrelevant to the reality of intolerance.
Again the actions of others cannot imply the religion of Islam to not be a religion of peace. Can you give me an example of what your referring too.
Hardly, it appears more a militaristic ideology, one that is contrived to rule us all.
You mean America!  It is clear you have misunderstood  Islam.
Revenge is tantamount to Islamic ideals as it encapsulates the Arab mindset of that time.
I see your talking about America again, where is your evidence for what you say??
And, it is the interpretation of aggression Muslims seem to take advantage of whenever they feel the opportunity arises. We don't find much peace or stability within a Muslim state.
Maybe because there is no Islamic state lol, which is what we are working towards. 

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Post #20

Post by A Troubled Man »

HaLi8993 wrote: @ A Troubled Man
What atrocities? Please list the atrocities directly associated with those attacks?
 

Let us look a little into the history of America, they where involved in many wars and military action prior to 911, it has engaged in hundreds of wars against the Indians. Only five years after the end of the most disastrous war in the history of the world, America went to war with Korea, then helped the French in supporting them militarily then they were involved in Southeast Asia where they where bombing not only Vietnam but Cambodia and Laos and the list goes on.... they overthrew the government of Iran, even before the Russians were in Afghanistan, they were covertly sending arms to the rebel forces in Afghanistan, the mujahedeen. Some of these people turned out later to be the Taliban, the people who have suddenly become "enemies". 

The people that they once  supported, the fundamentalists, took power in Afghanistan and established their regime. Soon they were at war with Kuwait using this as an excuse to intensify military presence in that area and to station troops in Saudi Arabia, which then became one of the major offenses for Osama bin Laden and other Saudi Arabian nationalists. Then in the Clinton administration America was bombing Afghanistan, Sudan, Yugoslavia, and Iraq again. In fact, it is safe to say that since World War II, there has not been a more warlike nation in the world than the United States. Hence the reason we cannot overlook the growing enmity towards the United States. In its foreign policy, the United States has consigned several million people to their deaths and supported terrorist governments in various parts of the world, especially in Latin America and the Middle East. 

Then 9/11 happens and there is the invasion of Iraq along with all the torture that came along with it with the establishment of Abu Ghraib and Gauntanimo Bay with this came prisoner abuse including physical, psychological and sexual abuse such as murder, rape, electrocution, water-boarding etc, then came Afghanistan, Yemen and fighting in Kashmir. Now if this isn't a prime example of revenge I don't know what is. Therefore judging the religion of Islam and Muslims based on what happened on 911 bears no value. 
Gee, thanks for the history lesson. :roll:

Notice that you didn't provide any atrocities as you claimed?

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